Oh no, another project gun - vintage boomstick (Updated with some new pictures)

[sigp220.45]

A local police supply place takes in surplus duty guns and evidence guns as credit for departmental purchases, then sells them. Its a police only place, so sometimes stuff sits around a while.

I checked in last week, and a forlorn Remington Model 11 12 gauge was in the rack, marked at $225. I left it there, but thought about it for a while and decided to go back today and see if it was still there. It was, and while I was looking it over the counter guy said "I can make you a deal on that". A few minutes later I was $175 bucks lighter in the wallet, but about 8 pounds heavier in the shotgun category.

Here it is, in all its rusty glory:





It has more than a few issues. The fore-end has some pretty good cracks, all repaired decades ago.



The "finish" looks like black paint. Maybe Duracoat. God knows what is underneath it. It also has the early safety, sometimes called the "suicide safety". Doesn't bother me - I'll think of it as the Garand safety.



The serial number puts in 1907-1908.

There was a sheet metal screw in the lower tang. It fell out while I was looking at it. It will not be missed.



The barrel is 28" long, full choke, and has a bead up front.



Buttplate has survived nicely.



The barrel markings are still legible under the paint.



So what to do with it? First I need to see if the chipped "finish" will come off, or maybe I'll just apply another coat of something. I'll deal with the fore-end, refinish the wood, install a two-shot magazine extension (supposedly 870 ones will fit), bob the barrel flush with the magazine tube, affix some kind of front bead, nickname it my "Askins Special" (read his book), stuff it full of "blue whistlers" (Askins again), and await the end times.

Suggestions? Has anyone worked on one of these before? I have an A-5, which is a much nicer version of this blue-collar blaster, but all I've done to that is load it up and shoot at pheasants, mostly in vain. I know I need to check the friction rings.

I'll post some pics as I go along.

 

[jframejoey]

Passed on a chopped to 18.5 11 in 12 ga about 5 years ago. Was only $200....still kick myself.

 

[Pisgah]

An 870 mag extension will work, but you will need a "spacer". I don't know that I can describe where you need it clearly enough, but once you get in to it you'll see. You can easily fabricate a spacer by stacking 3-4 1" machine bushings -- and if you don't know what those are, go to your nearest real hardware store and they'll steer you right to them. I got a Model 11 cheap a few years back and converted it in to a short-barreled "alley sweeper" -- pretty impressive gun on both ends!

 

[JohnRippert]

What you actually have is a Remington Autoloading Shotgun, also known as a RAS. That was the name before they went to calling them Model 11's. I have one from 1909 that belonged to my maternal grandfather. Mine is a project gun as well. The weld on the barrel ring that goes around the magazine failed and locked up the gun. It put a crimp in the magazine. Fixing the failed ring weld will be tough.

 

[2152hq]

"....There was a sheet metal screw in the lower tang. It fell out while I was looking at it. It will not be missed..."

There was a small threaded screw in there from the factory. It holds the mainspring and the trigger spring in place. The two separate leaf springs are stacked on top one another, the mainspring on top and the original screw threads right into the thicker mainspring.
The rear one is the tang screw. Remove the small 'lock screw', then remove the tang screw and you can pull the butt stock off straight to the rear.

The M11 was a licensed mfg'r copy of the FN A-5. A couple small things were changed,,the addition of an internal fibre washer buffer on the inside rear wall of the rec'vr probably the biggest departure from the orig Browning design.
Rem engineers desided the bolt needed the buffer to slam against to avoid cracking the back wall of the recv'r. FN/Belgian made A-5's never had one,,so the discussion goes on.
Most M11's are old enough now and have been used enough that the original bushing is brittle and pretty much useless if it even still there.

Some 'smiths replace them yet,,they have to be put back and rivited on to the original small stud in the back of the frame. Others just plainly don't bother with them,,or want to be bothered with that type of work.
Numrich used to have new buffer washers and even new replacement rivits for the job but I don't know if they bother anymore
I've seen a couple M11's with a cracked rear recv'r. But who knows if it was from the lack of a proper buffer support or plain misuse by wrong set-up of the friction rings. Heavy loads and a wrong ring set up (or no friction ring(s) at all) can cause a lot of damage.

The safety style inside the guard is the same as used on the early Belgian FN mfg A-5. Again some small differences in shaping of the button but the set up is the same. FN used that style into the 30's at least.

Good solid guns that sometimes need a little effort to get them to function right. Finding the correct ring sequence( light or heavy load) and a load to work with that,,keeping the mag tube lubed but not overly so ect.

The magazine ring on the bbl was brazed into place. It can be carefully reset and brazed back on again but will require re-bluing as the amt of heat will damage the bluing.

 

[Drm50]

I have chopped many 11s and a few A5s. My reason wasn't for
home defense, was for slugs/ deer hunting. I still have some
parts for 11s. Both 11 & A5 have crack forearm syndrome. Every
other one has cracks, the ones that sell under $$200. I have a
Rigid pipe cutter for nothing but shotgun barrels, and I have a
Crowning cutter with pilot from Brownells, to cut & square barrel.
I have a lot of Rem 700 ramps, take offs. Mate radius off ramp to
barrel and Siver solder. Also use 700 rear sights, the old models
with riser. Steel in these solders easier than the newer wedge
type, that is made out of some kind of cast. When mounting
back sight make sure you consider the recoil stroke. Because
of recoiling barrel any front sight other than a plain bead should
be soldered on.
The recoil spring and friction bushings are the main things that
wear out on these guns. Also I is good practice to remove stock
and check buffer spring. Years of gunk build up in them and can
cause short stoke jams.
My favorite slug gun is made from A5 that had barrel run over,
saved 23 1/2", put on sights and sling swivels. The only problem
I have with them is front sight blade. If you use one with a inset
bead, the recoil will snap it off within a few shots, I use plain
blade.

 

[JohnRippert]

About 15 years ago I picked up one at a local funshop. Serial puts it at 1924, and still has the "suicide safety". Mechanically in very good condition with about 60% finish left. Has one of the usual repairs in the front handguard. Wood covered in a poly finish that will need to be removed at some point. I paid around $200 back then. Really like the design as probably due to the reciprocating barrel they shoot softer than any other 12ga I have fired.

 

[Watchdog]

Congratulations on a nice find.

In '73, I had a Model 11 factory riot gun in 12-gauge. 20-inch cylinder bore. It's a great design. When I was still hunting back then, I used it exclusively for crows and it was just awesomely deadly. It wasn't that I was all that good of a shot...the crows just couldn't escape the shot pattern thrown by that cylinder bore barrel.

If I was in the market for one and found one for $175, it would not escape my clutches, even though I have no earthly use for one at this time.

I think if I found one in the condition of yours, I'd probably modify it as you intend to do, then I'd parkerize it.

Speaking only for myself, I rank it just behind the Winchester Model 12 as one of the best shotguns ever made.

 

[Drm50]

People over tighten the magazine cap on these Brn patent guns.
Tighten hand tight and back off 1 click. One of the reasons for
cracked forearms. I personally have had no issues with old style
safety, maybe it's what your use to.

 

[sigp220.45]

I thought I'd update with some of the fruits of my labors.

The black finish came off with a liberal application of paint stripper that specified it would remove epoxy. Wipe it on, watch it bubble, scrape it off.





It took a few Scotch brite pads, but I had it down to bare metal before too long.

Next I bobbed the barrel, with my Home Depot hacksaw and plastic mitre box. Note glass of wine. I measured 18.5 inches from where the barrel meets the receiver, which is how every cop I've ever met measures shotgun barrels. Using the actual "down the barrel to the breechface" measurement puts me at a bit over 19 inches.



I used Alumahyde II from Brownell's in dark grey parkerizing to refinish the metal. It is a "no bake" formula, but I read it works better if the metal is hot. I stuck the parts in the oven until they were too hot to touch, hung 'em up, and gave four light coats about 15 minutes apart. Then back in the oven, turned it off, and let them sit until they cooled.

The finish was thoroughly set when I fished it out the next morning. Looks pretty good to me.







The wood was easy - sand off the old mess, on with a simple oil finish.

So, all I have left is getting the old bead and base off the sawed off portion of barrel, and sticking on the end of this stubby barrel. Then I'll put on a Wilson combat two shot magazine extension, and I should be ready to rock.

 

[Drm50]

Nice looking job. I've no experience with that finish. When I take
off front, take out bead- turn barrel stub with sight base down
and direct torch into Muzzel until base drops off. This is one job
that the low temp silver solder doesn't handle very well. I use the
Brownells solder that comes foil like. I would have no idea how to
solder it on that barrel with out damaging your new finish. On
these BRN recoiling barrels the torque produced will fetch it off,
if a good solder job is not done. I think if I was just going to use
it with shot/ buck, I would just D/T for a large Solid Bead front.
I use the 3x56 thread size. Beads don't have enough mass to be
affected by recoil stroke. Once I get them fitted, I put Loc tite on
them.