OK AR-experts, what is the story on 7.62x39...

[M29since14]

For the last couple years I have been looking for something to shoot 7.72x39. I have had a Mini-30. It was not impressive. I am not particularly attracted to an SKS or AK. Do any of you have any opinions, experience, advice you would like to offer? I see Bushmaster has an M4-type carbine in 7.62x39...

 

[rimfired]

I dodged a lot of them in 70-71. Thats not much help I know. Sorry.

 

[gregintenn]

Ruger made a small version of an M77 bolt rifle chambered for 7.62x39. I believe a few other companies did as well. I'm not sure who still produces them, but one would be an interesting option.

 

[Wyo]

I haven't owned one but have known a few people who did and have tried it a few times myself. Our experience was uniformly bad. For some reason, that round just does not feed well in the AR platform with the odd shape of the 7.62x39 magazine. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Harrison]

I think it was Colt, may be wrong, brought out an AR-15 in 7.62x39. I have seen AR uppers in that caliber advertised. I would not want one.

 

[Farmer17]

I know a guy who has a whole bunch of TC Contender and Encore pistols, rifles, and barrels. He said his most accurate is his 14" 7.62x39 pistol.

 

[Stevie]

I own a couple SKS rifles and a WASR-10 AK clone.

The AK is the ticket for me. Reliable and accurate enough...really quite decent for accuracy....I was impressed, not expecting very much for accuracy. The cheap AK will shoot better iron sight 100yd groups than my .223 Ranch rifle would.

I need to get a mount and scope system for the AK to see what it will really do.

 

[akviper]

The main issue is difficulty developing a reliable high capacity magazine that will work in the AR type receiver. Colt discontinued their gun long ago. There are a few companies cloning the H&K 93 type platform in 7.62X39 but they are pretty new and the jury is still out.

CZ makes a pretty neat little bolt action that is supposed to be fairly accurate with good ammo. If you want to stick with semis go with one of the quality AKs out there. I have an old Bulgarian SLR that shoots almost minute of angle out to 300 meters.

 

[m1gunner]

There is an AR lower that takes AK mags. I do not have one, but they are supposed to work well.

If you want to stay with an AR platform, this is probably the best way.,

For plinking, I think I would just buy an SKS. Complicated as a rock, and not very expensive.

 

[BubbaBlades]

The standard 20 round .223 AR mag will only hold 7 rounds of 7.62x39. The "Frankenstein" mag pictured has part of an AK mag welded to a standard 20 round .223 AR mag and holds 24 rounds of 7.62x39. I do not know who made these mags or if they are still available. I would say that the accuracy of the 7.62x39 round from the Colt AR is very good. It is much more accurate than any Ruger or AK that I have used. The other thing worth mentioning is that the feed from both the standard Colt 7 round mag and the Frankenstein mag has been trouble free even when using cheap Russian ammo.
Mark

 

[Frank237]

5.45x39 ??

I've had a 1980's Colt Sporter, the 7.62x39 Colt AR since the mid 80's. It has digested thousands of 7.62 rds most of it the cheapest corrosive crap available. With VERY FEW problems.....especially with todays mags.

It shoots 3-5 MOA but so do most AK's in 7.62x39.

The round is very similar to the old .30-30 in power and trajectory.

MAGAZINES are THE issue. Right now C-Products is producing 30 rounders that seem to work quite well.

Best deal I can find now on Yugo surplus x39 is $230 a case of 1260 so eighteen cents per rd. I'm sure theres a ton of WOLF x39 out there, but I don't use it.

OK.....fast forward to S&W and their 5.45x39 UPPER. Mine averages 2 MOA day in...day out. The 5.45 is fairly flat shooting with a 53 gr slug @3000 fps that has nearly zero recoil.

Again... C-Products mags seem to work.

Russian surplus is available for $120 or so a can of 1080. Thats ELEVEN cents a rd. I paid $107 a can SHIPPED in January. So it can occasionally be found quite cheap.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the 5.45 round. CHEAP and ACCURATE especially for 3 gun shoots or plinking.

Right now the best I can do on 5.56mm ammo is THIRTY FOUR cents a rd.

There ARE 5.45 and 7.62 AR platforms that work quite well.

FN in MT

 

[M29since14]

Thanks for the info, everyone. It seems accepted that magazines are a hang-up, but Frank seems to think that problem may have been overcome.

I am also interested in durability. Does the AR stand up well the the 7.62x39, or is it a little much for it? I probably would not shoot the gun a lot, but wouldn't want to put that kind of money into something that will self-destruct in 2-3 thousand rounds.

As to accuracy, it is mainly a function of ammunition? I would think a good AR in this caliber, with a good barrel, would shoot very well with good quality ammunition - better than 5 MOA. Is this the case, or is there a limiting factor, such as the quality of available bullets?

Does anyone know if ARs in 7.62x39 are made with a certain bore size, as a general rule, or does it vary according to the whim of the manufacturer?

 

[n4zov]

While it is far from being my favorite site, you will finds plenty of information on the AR/7.62x39 combination here:

AR15.Com

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

AR15--762x39

I have a Colt original in 7.62 and the big bitch was always feeding issues, and mag capacity. The C-Products mags solved that completely. There was never an issue with the accuracy, although some ammo was prefered over others. The Chinese stuff that is now hard to find was the best by far, and my foresight in that dept has proven a good thing.

While I was waiting for the proper mags to evolve for the Colt lower I built a couple of guns on the Special Weapons lowers that use the AK 47 mags. They were NOT a simple build, The uppers had to be heavily modified to accept the AK mag width and the bolts had to be relieved to interface with the feed lips( ak seated high, bolt jammed open) to get reliably feeding. I used the DPMS Heavy upper as it was the only one that has the material thickness to allow clearancing and retain the strength at the bottom of the reciver sides. If the colts spec uppers are attempted, you will end up with the reciever sides that are about.015 thick and unacceptably flexible. I also made it into a sidecocker while I was at it(have always Hated the nose picker charge handle on ARs)... I recommend the MGI bolt and FP for the AK round, Makes the misfires due to the hard primers GO Away.

The Spec Weapons lowers were pretty straight forward, a little relief behind the front hinge pin and some mag release fitting and the test sessions were as close to Happy Ending as you can get. The ammo issues are mostly corrosion related for me, the russky stuff doesnt measure up in the accuracy dept for me at all, so I dont use it, problem solved.

I used the carbine length gas system as the longer gas tube short cycled to often. same system on the 16" and the 20" bbls. I regularly shoot 10" discs at 400yds plus and these platforms will take em down as fast as I can aquire a sight picture(Rock River trigger helps a bunch here) so, to those who would pass on another upper because someone who doesnt own or use one dont like em, consider the above and and proceed at your own speed. Oh yeah, I dont care for the 6.8, but I've never had one and after playing with the 7.62, most likely wont.

The Colt factory upper on the M16 lower is a hoot, and the CP mags make it worth the wait.

 

[handejector]

For the last couple years I have been looking for something to shoot 7.72x39. I have had a Mini-30. It was not impressive.

I See your problem. Your bullets are too big! Drop back to 7.62 bullets, and all will be well.

Seriously, Unless I was going the CZ bolt route, I would just stick to the old bullet slingers the cartridge was designed for (SKS), or that was designed for that cartridge (AK). Play with them awhile, and they tend to grow on ya because of just what they are- pretty accurate, VERY reliable, extremely uncomplicated machines designed to be usable by virtually any primate capable of abstract thought.

 

[M29since14]

Oh, hey, thanks for that - appreciate it!

Lee, unfortunately you have shot down your own argument. I am not good with that "abstract" stuff. I understand what you are saying but I know where the mag release and safety are on an AR-15 and don't want to retrain myself. (Besides that, those AKs are just plain ugly and offend my machinist sensibilities. )

Anybody care to jump in on the bore diameter question? Are all the AR uppers 0.311" - or just what? It would be nice to find one that is 0.308", but I suppose that is not going to happen.

 

[SOFMatchstaff]

I suppose you could chamber a .308 bore, but it seems to me that most, if not all, 7.62 ammo utilize .310 projos, so why induce a loose neck dia in the chamber just to use .308 dia bullets. It will take a reduced neck ID on the case to properly hold tension on a .308 bullet, and the expansion upon firing will shorten if not end the case life of reloadable brass, not to mention the pressure considerations. the reamers I have and use cut a chamber that specs out for the .310 to.311 and will duplicate the Comblock military chambers. The pilot dia for AK bore is .3005 and the std .308 cal bore is .299+- so if you do the math its obvious how much difference there is. I slugged the bores and all of them including the Colt tube are a min of .310/.3005. A special reamer would be wise, for the .308 bore, as the larger pilot in a tight bore might be an expensive mistake(been there, bad) and a ruined job.

I doubt a Manuf is going to ship a bbl with a bore that is .002 to tight for a specific caliber and figure that the average reloader will compensate for the difference. Yeah UH HUH.

So if ugly offends your machinist sensibilitys, what does an out of spec sloppy chamber/bore configuation rate?? only accurate matters, ugly is in the eye of the beholder, and I got some butt ugly ones.

 

[Big Cholla]

I own, shoot, and reload for a Colt 7.62x39 upper on a Bushmaster lower. For several years I suffered using the Colt OEM 5 round magazine. I finally obtained C Products 30 round mags and haven't looked back. The rifle is accurate and reliable. I would go to battle with this rifle anytime it becomes necessary. .......... Big Cholla

 

[Dregg]

I would recommend the Saiga 7.62 rifle. I have one and I love it.

 

[M29since14]

So if ugly offends your machinist sensibilitys, what does an out of spec sloppy chamber/bore configuation rate?? only accurate matters, ugly is in the eye of the beholder, and I got some butt ugly ones.

Thanks for the additional info, and your point is taken. When I got the Ruger Mini-30, I was told by Ruger that the rifle was designed to use either .308" U.S. commercial rifle bullets or any surplus ammunition. I believe they also said some U.S. commercial ammunition in that caliber was being loaded with .308" projectiles. I did some testing and the best accuracy with that particular rifle seemed to be with a handload using Sierra 130-gr. HP .308" bullets. It was not great - just better than anything else. So, I was wondering if this is a common thing, or whether my info from way back when wouldn't apply to more modern designs?

I doubt I would do much handloading anyway, so I guess that is a fairly minor consideration. My main reason for handloading for the Ruger was to get it to shoot tolerably well. It never really did and ended up getting traded off.