OK to shoot .38 +P in a Model 64-1?

[57Strat]

I have a stainless .38 caliber Model 64-1 w/ a 4" barrel. Will it prematurely wear the gun out if I shoot +P rounds in it on a regular basis?

Does S&W have an official stance on shooting +P in this gun?

 

[Glock 'em down]

The best way to remember is if the gun is an ALL STEEL model, such as your model 64, then by all means blast away.

If it's an AIRWEIGHT revolver that is NOT marked +P on the barrel, then use caution when shooting +P ammo. By todays standards, a few +Ps and +Ps for carry should be ok, but not a steady diet of them.

 

[Chromedhearts]

By todays standards, a few +Ps and +Ps for carry should be ok, but not a steady diet of them.

Pardon me if I'm wrong, I just wanted to clarify that, that comment was about the Airweights, not the Model 64, which would hold up well to any commercial +P and then some.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Pardon me if I'm wrong, I just wanted to clarify that, that comment was about the Airweights, not the Model 64, which would hold up well to any commercial +P and then some.

Correct. If an Airweight is marked +P safe, then I would still keep the +Ps to a minimum.

But with an ALL STEEL revolver, yes the model 64 is ALL STEEL, you can shoot +Ps all day long.

 

[shotgun-2]

I am looking at my S&W Safety & Instruction Manual for my 64-2 right now and on page #8 it shows that revolver rated to use +P+.
All guns will wearout and loosen up at some point if shot enough, the heaver the load the faster that will happen.

As a mid-sized revolver in 38 spec. it is on the upper end of the "Toughness Scale".

Good Shooting, shotgun-2.

 

[BobK]

Any gun is going to wear out quicker, if you shoot heavy loads all the time, and shoot a lot!!! +P .38 spls. aren't all that hot. Even .357 Mags. aren't that bad, as long as you stick with 158 gr. bullets or heavier, and med. vel. loads. They were made to shoot....not to look at!!!!!! Bob

 

[Glock 'em down]

Any gun is going to wear out quicker, if you shoot heavy loads all the time, and shoot a lot!!! +P .38 spls. aren't all that hot. Even .357 Mags. aren't that bad, as long as you stick with 158 gr. bullets or heavier, and med. vel. loads. They were made to shoot....not to look at!!!!!! Bob

I hear this alot. What's wrong with 125gr .357 Magnum loads?

 

[Hunt200]

I hear this alot. What's wrong with 125gr .357 Magnum loads?

Flame cutting for one.

 

[Glock 'em down]

Flame cutting for one.

Hmmm...m'kay...uh...explain exactly what that is please.

 

[BobK]

The HOT 125gr. .357 is loaded about a hot as you can get,(in .357) for higher velocity, and greater knock-down power. This fireball occurs in the B-C (barrel-cylinder) gap, as soon as the bullet leaves the cylinder. The excessive heat causes damage to the top strap of the gun. This is called "flame cutting", similar to what you do with a cutting torch.
Also, it subjects the frame, cylinder, forcing cone of the barrel, to a great deal of stress. Things don't last as long ....when subjected to a great deal of stress. Material Stress is something that is studied by the Mechanical Engineers in the R&D Dept. of S&W. It is something to be considered when designing materials, and components of a gun.

Oh yeah...there's an article arolund here in the Ammo section which discusses +P .38 in depth. It should be required reading.

Tha Tha That's all folks!!! Bob

 

[Glock 'em down]

Oh! I see. So the 158gr .357 Magnums don't have quite the "flame" in 'em as the 125s, huh?

Ok, thanks! That's good to know!

 

[lagavulin62]

Oh! I see. So the 158gr .357 Magnums don't have quite the "flame" in 'em as the 125s, huh?

Ok, thanks! That's good to know!

being a newbie pretty much myself I had a hard time with this one too. it would seem that a heavier bullet would surely do more damage than a smaller one. however if I understand it correctly(FINALLY) the heavier bullets generally travel with less velocity owing to the fact that they are larger and I guess their size lends to more knockdown power in itself. the smaller bullets require more velocity to achieve an equivilent knockdown power so they are loaded up with more powder and thats where the extra "flame-cutting" comes in. so how did i do experts? hope that helps.

 

[57Strat]

I am looking at my S&W Safety & Instruction Manual for my 64-2 right now and on page #8 it shows that revolver rated to use +P+.
All guns will wearout and loosen up at some point if shot enough, the heaver the load the faster that will happen.

As a mid-sized revolver in 38 spec. it is on the upper end of the "Toughness Scale".

Good Shooting, shotgun-2.

I did some Googles and this S&W owners manual says on page 12 that +P ammo is not recommended for use in pre-1958 K frame revolvers, and that S&W does not recommend the use of +P+ in any S&W firearms.

Smith & Wesson revolvers owner's manual

 

[stiab]

S&W does not recommend the use of +P+ in any S&W firearms.

They did in the past, see S&W ad below...

 

[PDL]

I had a question about +Ps in my M36. A quick email to S&W with the serial number got back a definitive answer. The point being, take a minute and send them and email with your question. They'll let you know.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

You need to read a little better, it says you can't use Plus +P because it is to hot. Just some of the "J" frame guns aren't rated for the +P, but it was made after 1958 go for it. Reason for this was the heat treatment that they got.

 

[57Strat]

You need to read a little better, it says you can't use Plus +P because it is to hot. Just some of the "J" frame guns aren't rated for the +P, but it was made after 1958 go for it. Reason for this was the heat treatment that they got.

From page 12 of the manual link that I posted a few posts up:

 

[Bullseye Smith]

It is right +P+ isn't the same as +P, I don't think they even make the +P+ anymore. Most gun companies wouldn't use it in thier guns, a few rifles would use it.

 

[Chromedhearts]

This is a frequent discussion, and well documented, that K Frames in .357 take a battering from frequent use of 125 grain bullets in "Magnum" cartridges, not limited to flame cutting but including cracked forcing cones. It seems that the heavier bullets excelerate at a more gradual rate than the lighter bullets.
It does not seem to be as much of a problem, to my knowledge, in K Frame .38 specials. In fact it is well documented that the +P ammo of today is at best only slightly hotter than the standard load of the distant past.
I believe the OP about the Model 64 can get clouded when we include the .357 Magnum in the conversation. Not that there's not a valid discussion there, but it started about "Hot" .38 Specials in a Modern stainless steel K frame, which is not really the same as "Hot" Magnums in essentially the same gun.
Just my humble oppinion,

 

[stiab]

In fact it is well documented that the +P ammo of today is at best only slightly hotter than the standard load of the distant past.

Some folks frequently repeat that idea on the internet, but I am yet to see anyone prove it with actual testing. It can't be proven by quoting old factory ammo charts, because the testing methods changed in 1978/79 that caused quoted velocities to drop significantly. For example, many loads in the S&W ammo ads decreased by over 20% with the move from unvented test barrels to real guns.

I'm still accumulating old and new ammo for a head to head comparison, but the limited amount of testing I have done with 6 loads (two old standard and four +P) contradicts the statement quoted above. If anyone has any definitive actual side by side testing that proves +P is similar to yesteryears standard loads, please post it. Thanks...