old 22 Hornet

[roundgunner]

I have a old 22 Hornet that I want to shoot. My understanding is the old ones have .001 smaller bore. I can't find any .223 bullets, how much pressure will .001 create? I can get, and already have .224 bullets 45&46 grains. I'm thinking about using the low end of the charge weight with the .224
Has anybody tried this?

 

[roundgunner]

I have a old 22 Hornet that I want to shoot. My understanding is the old ones have .001 smaller bore. I can't find any .223 bullets, how much pressure will .001 create? I can get, and already have .224 bullets 45&46 grains. I'm thinking about using the low end of the charge weight with the .224
Has anybody tried this?

 

[john traveler]

That 0.001" difference is enough to blow primers, even using starting loads. Worse, the extra breech thrust is enough to loosen the action.

Why don't you try slugging the barrel first? I would use a .22 LR slug, upset it slightly, and push it through the lightly lubricated bore.

That's a very nice rifle you have. Please be advised that even the late production model 417 Stevens are considered marginal in the .22 Hornet caliber. The action tends to loosen up even at the modest 35,000 psi of the .22 Hornet.

I would treat that classic to very mild loads, and make it last for the next owners.

 

[TSQUARED]

Warren,
I may be able to help you with some Sieera 45gr SP 0.223" bulets. I'll be out of town until After April 15th. Srop me a note after the 15th if you haven't found any.
Tony

 

[Paul5388]

Graf's has the .223" Hornet bullet in stock.

http://www.grafs.com/product/242463

 

[rundownfid]

Roundgunner,
That is a beauty, I'll just bet you want to shoot it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewp...productnumber=163371

Midway has everything you'll need bullets to brass.

 

[Alk8944]

The only .223 Hornets to my knowledge were the early Model 54 Winchesters. The very first Hornets were 1922 Springfield rifles converted at the armory by Howe. These were on .222 rimfire barrels.

Your rifle could be either a 417 or a custom done on a 44 1/2 Stevens action and probably has a .224 bore, only you have it to examine closely. Don't guess, slug it or have it done so you know what the bore dimension actually is.

I have seen more than one Hornet which was built on a Winchester or other .22 rimfire barrel. I really suspect the .223 bullet in early ammunition was actually a compromise which would give adequate accuracy in both .222 and .224 barrels. .001 will not cause any problems under normal circumstances. If you are loading the way everyone used to, until you saw pressure signs and then backed off 1/2 gr. or so, it may cause a problem. Just stick with published pressure tested data from reliable sources and neither you, nor the gun, will ever know the difference. A better way to determine which to use is shoot both and see which gives better accuracy. The Hornet is about the only caliber you have his option with commonly available bullets!

 

[roundgunner]

Thanks for the info, and the offer! I don't know why I diden't think about going on line DUH!!

I think I will get some H110 for this so I can use it in my 44 also. Lately all my hand gun loads have been light duty fast powder (titegroup) some heavy H110 loads in my 3 inch 629 ought to be a BLAST!

 

[lafayne]

Nice rifle and nice Unertl. If you find you can shoot .224 bullets, you might try the Nosler 45 grain solid base Hornet bullet and IMR 4227 - works good for me in a No. 3.

 

[Paul5388]

H110 is not the best powder for the Hornet now. It seems that THE powder is Lil'Gun and you can use it in your .44 too.

I load 13.0 gr in R-P cases with a .224" 40 gr V-Max at 1.74" OAL, but mine is a late production single shot.

It's my understanding that .223" barrels were fairly common prior to WWII. If you don't know the age of the barrel, it's best to slug the barrel as already suggested.

 

[roundgunner]

I'm not sure exactly how to slug the barrel. After you push the lead thru do you mike the grooves or the outside / overall diameter? I have the micrometers' just not the knowledge.

 

[Paul5388]

As someone has suggested, use a .22 LR bullet and squeeze it a little in a vise to make it slightly fatter. Put some extra lube on it and start it in the muzzle end of the barrel. Then, it'll have the rifling engraved on it, just push it all the way through to the breech.

Measure the widest points, which will be the groove diameter you're trying to fill up. .001"-.002" over that diameter is usually what we try for.

 

[Jerry in SC]

Lil Gun is a great Hornet powder.

A 45 grain Sisk bullet with 10.5 grains of 2400 was a favorite accuracy load of Paul Estey, from his book, "The Woodchuck Hunter" circa 1936.

That's a very nice vintage Hornet, take good care of her.

 

[Homie]

Warren,
Your Hornet, if a factory barrel (which it looks like) is a .223, which was all that Stevens used. The Stevens Hornet was only made for a short time right after the Hornet was introduced because the CAST 44 action would not stand up to the pressures. The much stronger 44 1/2 action had been long dicontinued by then.

Hodgdon's web site lists pressure data you might find useful.

What are the barrel markings?

Good shooting.

 

[walnutred]

If the bore is good I consider cast loads, once you determine bore size.

 

[Paul5388]

The H&R Topper utilized a cast frame and didn't have any problems with the Hornet or any of the other chamberings they produced.

I have used a H&R cast shotgun/rifle frame (it was originally a 12 gauge), made around 1980, without a problem either. Normally the firing pin diameter is the main factor (not enough primer support with the big firing pins), not the frame.

 

[john traveler]

It's not just the cast frame that made the model 44 and the model 417 marginal for .22 Hornet pressures. It's the basic design: the breech block itself locks up in frame abutments, but is held in place with linkages and link pins that are easily worn by firing higher pressure cartridges. The breech pressure stresses the linkage and loosens it.

The H&R Topper is a well established standing breech design, with massive hinge pin, large thrust-bearing surfaces, and sturdy, thick breechface. It's well proven for all shotgun gages, .22 Hornet, .45-70, .44 Magnum, .30-30, .38-55 cartridges for several generations of use.

 

[roundgunner]

I shoot a lot of cast handgun bullets but never rifle. is leading a issue with the higher speeds? Can you recommend commercial 223 bullets?

I will be shooting this with light loads so I don't beat it up.

It has markings STEVENS "WALNUT HILL" on top.
22 HORNET & address as Chicopee Hill, MA

My dad told me his dad used it in NW Ohio to kill hawks. He said the state gave them .50 for two feet. I guess they were killing off the rabbits and pheasants on the game preserve. He said he used to load it a bit hot but it was great for getting hawks in the trees.

He also said that he replaced the cross hairs with spider web because the originals were to thick.

 

[john traveler]

That is a wonderful rifle you have with a great family history. A former naval officer friend used to tell me what a sensation the .22 Hornet was when it came out in the 1930s, how flat it shot, and how it was instant death on varmint critters. It was the first of the high velocity .22 cartridges, of course, but pretty modest performance for today.

When I used to load cast bullets for the .22 Hornet, it was always using linotype for the alloy. It was a gas check design, and there was no leading at the approximately 2000 fps velocities. I'm sure you can find commercial gc linotype cast bullets to duplicate this performance.

 

[Paul5388]

the .22 Savage Hi-Power was introduced in 1912 in the Savage 99 lever-action rifle. The round was designed by the famous designer Charles Newton.

The Hornet was introduced much later than the Hi-Power, but it used a .227" bullet.

I load a Lyman 225415 for my Hornet, but I usually try for .22 LR or .22 Mag velocities. It's a gas check bullet, so the velocity can be fairly high with softer lead bullets and still not produce any leading.

Sometimes I just shoot them as cast, with a tumble lube, but that's at .22 LR velocities. As cast may be a little big for your purposes, but Lee makes an inexpensive push through sizing die that works like a die in a press. Just tumble lube, add a gas check if you want and push them through the die with the press's ram.