Old British sub found

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One time I was drinking beer in Bermuda.
In comes a bunch of RN guys yelling and singing.
They were wearing their short pant and socks summer uniform.
I guess Bermuda shorts, after all we were in Bermuda.
Turns out it was the Skipper and officers of a Brit Sub.
The Skipper invited me and the other guys at the bar to visit his boat.
The next day I mo-ped-Ed down to the docks.
It was an old diesel boat, I think.
It gave me Claustrophobia Just looking at it.
If looked like it was half sunk although tied to a pier.
The only sub that I was ever in is the Uboat in Chicago.
Hats off to you guys who can do that.
I had rather do most anything else in the military, including the flying that I did.
 
I was digging a little into the history of this sub.
It seems that part of the P311 crew were made up of crew from the HMS Utmost, that had been lost to enemy action.

This picture is said to be that crew, and has this caption: "The crew of H.M.S. Utmost, Feb.6th 1942. My grandfather Arthur Lee (born in 1909) is behind the officer 2nd from the left at the front. The crew, under the Captain Cdr Richard Cayley, transfered to H.M.S. P311, a submarine presumed mined whilst on operations in the Mediterranean. Her last signal was received on 31st December 1942 and she was officially declared lost with all hands a few days later. My grandfather's rank was Chief Petty Officer and his date of death is officially given as 8th January, 1943. The sub was about to be titled H.M.S. Tutankhamen on the orders of Winston Churchill, who insisted that all submarines should have names."

 
There's not a lot of popular writing about the British submarine service, in contrast to the U.S., German, and even the Japanese submariners.

As I recall, there was once a show on the Military Channel about a British sub stalking and sinking a German sub.

There's even less about the Soviets. Just about the ONLY thing you ever hear about them is the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.
 
In WWII, the Soviet subs didn't do anything but protect the ports, almost no "patrols", as we know them, until late 40's or early 50's.

As with many things the Germans had better Engineers/Designers for subs! That is why they were not allowed any after the WWI treaty, seems the really "Helped" Belgium with their fleet of subs before WWII heated up.

A friend from H.S. joined the Navy instead of his Junior and Senior years. He ended up a sonar man on a nuke. The one thing he would talk about over beer and pizza was how the sun looks after not seeing it for a little over 6 months!

When I ask about the USS Scorpion, he about decked me, then explained that there are things NO ONE may ask or say (because of bad luck)!

Ivan
 
Interesting thread. Brave fellows to ride around in a submarine. The very idea of it is frightening to me.
Anyone know the significance of this?
258dff179852411f520251dfdf8cca0c.jpg
 
cmort666 said:
There's not a lot of popular writing about the British submarine service, in contrast to the U.S., German, and even the Japanese submariners.

As I recall, there was once a show on the Military Channel about a British sub stalking and sinking a German sub.

There's even less about the Soviets. Just about the ONLY thing you ever hear about them is the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.
Click to expand...

I THINK that Russian subs Captains name wss something like: Marienescu?? or something of that nature?? Ive got an original cap tally from the Gustloff--pre-war though.
 
okiegtrider said:
Anyone know the significance of this?
258dff179852411f520251dfdf8cca0c.jpg
Click to expand...

I was very curious about this also, and looked extensively for it's meaning, without success. Even the websites for the Royal Navy, The British Library, and the Imperial War Museums don't offer this type of reference help.

H M SUBMARINE P.311 EX-TUTANKAMEN EX-P.91 08 JANUARY 1943
Able Seaman Alfred Stanley NEWTON D/SSX 13847
Petty Officer Telegraphist Andrew ADAMS D/JX 147935
Able Seaman Arthur KEY P/JX 275312
Chief Stoker Arthur James SQUIRE D/KX 75929
Chief Petty Officer Arthur Stephen Kingston LEE D S M P/J 113443
Able Seaman Bernard CROSS C/JX 157739
Able Seaman Bernard TREVETHAN P/JX 149522
Telegraphist Bernard George CHEESEMAN C/JX 236264
Leading Seaman Bertie George Sidney RICKWOOD P/SSX 25205
Lieutenant Cecil BUCKLEY
Petty Officer Cecil Ernest CARR C/JX 144742
Able Seaman Cecil William EVANS P/JX 164117
Able Seaman Charles Edward William BROCK D/JX 138882
Leading Stoker Charles Henri VOKINS P/KX 85119
Petty Officer Christopher IDDIOLS C/J 100591
Able Seaman Clarence Howard RUDGE P/JX 276519
Chief Engine Room Artificer Cyril KIMBERLEY D/M 38795
Able Seaman Desmond Arthur Jack FELTHAM P/SSX 32278
Ordinary Seaman Donald Barry BENNETT D/JX 305625
ERA4 Edmund George HUNT C/MX 77300
Leading Cook (S) Geoffrey Leonard SKIPPON D/MX 69037
Able Seaman George LORD D/JX 287256
Lieutenant Guy STRETTON-SMITH
Stoker 1st Class Harry Herbert BLACKWELL P/KX 132332
Leading Stoker Henry Charles SHORT P/KX 97695
Stoker 1st Class Henry Reginald FOXON P/KX 114941
Lieutenant Jack SARGENT
Able Seaman James CLARK C/SSX 23951
Petty Officer Steward James Crisp KING MiD P/LX22336
Leading Telegraphist James Malcolm BROWN P/JX 139969
Leading Telegraphist Jim LORD D/JX 161659
Stoker 1st Class John GEE D/SKX 1266
Petty Officer Stoker John McCLURE P/KX 80404
Leading Telegraphist John MEYERHUBER P/JX 155251
Lieutenant (E) John Hudson GORDON
Electrical Artificer 4th Class John Leslie LYTH P/MX 66284
Stoker 2nd Class John Norbert GRIFFITHS D/KX 144769
Petty Officer Stoker John Vernon MILLIGAN P/KX 86292
Leading Seaman John William REDMAN C/JX 132535
Able Seaman Leonard AUTY P/JX 237486
Stoker 1st Class Matthew QUINN D/SKX 1238
Petty Officer Stoker Patrick John DONOHUE P/KX 84220
Able Seaman Paul MAPPLEBECK R/JX 180968
ERA3 Percival Leo James DOWN D/MX 53618
ERA4 Reginald Charles William MARTIN P/MX 55884
Ordinary Seaman Richard RIBBANDS P/JX 338299
Commander Richard Douglas CAYLEY D S O and 2 bars
Lieutenant Richard Hele Spencer SILVER
Able Seaman Robert Warner CLARKE P/JX 321879
Able Seaman Robert William JOHNS D/SSX 21077
Stoker 1st Class Ronald William Buller PRIDHAM D/KX 145916
Yeoman of Signals Thomas Harold MOON D S M C/JX 133998
Stoker 1st Class Thomas Neil McSHANE P/KX 130669
Stoker 1st Class Thomas William BULFORD P/KX 88120
Stoker 1st Class Thomas William FRENCH C/KX 95964
Ordinary Seaman Walter McLEAN P/JX 362264
Stoker 1st Class Wilfred BRUCE C/KX 118719
Stoker 1st Class Wilfred FOUNDLING C/KX 132645
Able Seaman William COONEY D/SSX 28081
Petty Officer William Edward DYE C/JX 126605
Able Seaman William Frank SUTHERLAND C/SSX 23885
Able Seaman William Frederick NESBITT C/J 99511
Able Seaman William Henry BURTON P/SSX 22991
Lieutenant Ian Norman MACRAE
Seaman Robert ANDERSON D/X 18907
 
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the ringo kid said:
I THINK that Russian subs Captains name wss something like: Marienescu?? or something of that nature?? Ive got an original cap tally from the Gustloff--pre-war though.
Click to expand...
Alexander Marinesko. Sounds more Ukrainian than Romanian.

Despite being cashiered, he comes out better in the end than the Captain of the U-20, Walter Schwieger, who sank the Lusitania. Of course the Gustloff was INDISPUTABLY a military ship (and marked as such) carrying hundreds of service people, in addition to the thousands of civilians.
 
cmort666 said:
There's not a lot of popular writing about the British submarine service, in contrast to the U.S., German, and even the Japanese submariners.

As I recall, there was once a show on the Military Channel about a British sub stalking and sinking a German sub.

There's even less about the Soviets. Just about the ONLY thing you ever hear about them is the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.
Click to expand...

There are two books by Russian Submariners. One is "Russian Submarines in Arctic Waters" by I.Kolyshkin. It's interesting but has a lot of "Boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy gets tractor". There's another one, whose title and author escapes me, about Russian submarine operations in the Baltic.

On Japanese submarines, there's: "I Boat Captain" byZenji Orita with Joseph D. Harrington, and "Sunk, the The story of the Japanese Submarine Fleet, 1942-45" by Mochitsura Hashimoto.
 
Saw a documentary....

Kronos said:
Something for memorial day,these guys went missing in 1942 looks like they're all still there.

WW2 British submarine found 'with 71 bodies inside' - AOL Travel UK

You should see some of the stuff they find in Russia,those guys didn't clean the battlefields at all,just left them there both Germans and their own men :eek:
Click to expand...

You can collect a lot of hardware just walking around a Sov/German battlefield but most of it is in really bad shape because it's been laying right on top of the ground for 70 years.
 
rwsmith said:
You can collect a lot of hardware just walking around a Sov/German battlefield but most of it is in really bad shape because it's been laying right on top of the ground for 70 years.
Click to expand...

There was a site,either Russian or Ukrainian that I saw a few years back,I could dig it up again but if I do I warn you guys there's bodies (or in this case bones) of troops both German and Russian being dug up.

A lot of the areas where they fought in '42-'43 where never picked up they just left it all there,says something about Stalin and his regime.....
 
British subs have their own great stories...

cmort666 said:
There's not a lot of popular writing about the British submarine service, in contrast to the U.S., German, and even the Japanese submariners.

As I recall, there was once a show on the Military Channel about a British sub stalking and sinking a German sub.

There's even less about the Soviets. Just about the ONLY thing you ever hear about them is the sinking of the Wilhelm Gustloff.
Click to expand...

Of course you don't hear about this stuff. Everybody knows that America entered the war and won it after all the other countries failed. :D:D:D

The HMS Seraph was involved in several important mission, one of which was 'Operation Mincemeat' where the Brits put an already dead body ashore in Spain with false documents saying that the allied landings were going to be in Sardinia. This is shown in the movie "The Man Who Never Was" starring Clifton Webb. The body was picked up by the Spanish and passed on to the Germans who closely examined it but the Brits had left no stone unturned. Everything on him was produced in a way that could only be authentic. In the movie a very perserverant spy was sent to verify all of the clues and almost uncovers the plot. Though unconvinced his superiors assume that the documents were real and divert a large force to defend Sardinia, saving lives on the allied side.

The periscope and forward torpedo hatch of the Seraph now reside at the the Seraph memorial at the Citadel in Charleston, SC at Gen. Mark Clark's request to recognize her valuable contributions, especially to operations in the Med.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hms...hUJ4iYKHRSnD8EQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=KWfl9kHj0_lfiM:


The periscope used to be trained on a flying U.S. flag across the marching field. It may still be.

Good read: "Iron Coffins" by Herbert Werner, U boat skipper.
 
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Another couple of good reads from opposite sides in the Battle of the Atlantic are:

U-505 or Twenty Million Tons Under the Sea by Admiral Daniel V. Gallery - You can find it under either of those titles. Admiral Gallery was in charge of the hunter-killer task force that captured the U-505 in WWII and covers the U-boat war pretty darn well.

Das Boot by Lothar-Günther Buchheim - I read this book (English version) some years ago and enjoyed it immensely.
 
rwsmith said:
You can collect a lot of hardware just walking around a Sov/German battlefield but most of it is in really bad shape because it's been laying right on top of the ground for 70 years.
Click to expand...

And you will promptly get arrested too if you try taking it with you. About 10 years ago, some friends of mine who then were in the Belgian Army, rented a mobilehome and toured a few sites in Russia. The last site they went to was the Stalingrad area. Tons of stuff lying everywhere rotting away. Anyway, they thought it would be harmless to rescue several Russian and German "lids" and took a total of about 20 or so. They were stopped at the border, detained and questioned for 25 hours and finally released. The headgear was confiscated of course and they went back home with no money.
 
Kronos said:
There was a site,either Russian or Ukrainian that I saw a few years back,I could dig it up again but if I do I warn you guys there's bodies (or in this case bones) of troops both German and Russian being dug up.

A lot of the areas where they fought in '42-'43 where never picked up they just left it all there,says something about Stalin and his regime.....
Click to expand...

Now days, if they catch you? you will be arrested or detained in the least unless you bribe the local authorities. I know a few guys that happened to and what they had to do to get released.
 
Cyrano said:
On Japanese submarines, there's: "I Boat Captain" byZenji Orita with Joseph D. Harrington, and "Sunk, the The story of the Japanese Submarine Fleet, 1942-45" by Mochitsura Hashimoto.
Click to expand...
I've read "I Boat Captain" and thought it was pretty good. Apart from rather forced denials of atrocities by Japanese submariners, he's got a lot to say about higher command and their submarine strategy, NONE of it good.
 
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