Old full boxes of .38-44 N.M #3 ammo

[Wyatt Burp]

I assume that’s what it is because when I saw the round nose (or round ball?) seated deep in the case like wad cutters, sort of. The gun shop just bought a gun collection that included tons of old ammo like this but haven’t sorted it out yet. I’ll be going back soon. Oh. that gun is a Colt .38 Long Colt “Cop & Thug” model that I never seen before either.

 

[kaaskop49]

Got all excited for a moment: thought you had found ammo for the Heavy Duty which ammo is known as .38-44 in some quarters. Love to hear what else you come across in that shop. Always remember ammo needs a good home.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[rockquarry]

I know little about old cartridges, but that looks like the .38-44 target round, quite a different loading than the high-velocity .38-44 cartridge. Probably a lot harder to find, too.

 

[Model19man]

There is S&W 38-44 and S&W 38/44. Very different stuff.

 

[rct269]

As you likely already know, the whole idea of the 38-44 S&W round in the NM #3 Target was/is zero throat length. I'm told Ira Paine set records for accuracy with that combination that have never been equaled. (That said, I don't know the first thing about the particulars.)

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Wyatt Burp]

I know little about old cartridges, but that looks like the .38-44 target round, quite a different loading than the high-velocity .38-44 cartridge. Probably a lot harder to find, too.

There’s a box that looks like these on this page that specifies a target load…

.38-44 antique ammo - Google Search

 

[murphydog]

I believe this is the standard ammunition for the .38-44, as it was made as a target gun. No full-power +P SJHP loads needed.

It is possible light round ball loads would have also been made, usually called "Gallery".

One item about this round I recall is the case diameter is the same as .38 S & W, so this can be used in a .38-44. Not sure how accurate it would be, however.

 

[collectordude]

lol I saw u on the Colt forum

 

[rct269]

I'm told the loads can be duplicated starting with 357 Maximum brass---don't know if it needs trimming or not. The case length (original) is the same as the cylinder (1 7/16")---bullet leaves the case, and is in the rifling----zero throat.

S&W later took this one step further with the OLympic versions of the 3rd Model Single Shot----seating the round has the bullet IN the rifling. This so called Olympic chamber is also found in the early Straight Line single shots----and was long gone in the later ones. (This all came to pass because of complaints about the difficulty in seating the cartridge. The great unwashed didn't know when they were well off!) They complained first about it with the early Olympics, and S&W lengthened the chamber by about .025" in the later guns---and put what I think is an even longer chamber in the early Striaght Lines. The fussing continued, and they gave up---using a standard chamber in the later Straight Lines.

I said the great unwashed didn't know when they were well off---I did a test way back when---standard gun/early Olympic/laterOlympic---25 rounds from each gun at 25 yards---seated/two hand hold/with a rest. Standard gun did all 10 ring, with a few in the X ring (my aiming point). Both early and late Olympics did ALL X ring.

I have the load data for the 38-44 S&W, never mind I don't know what kind of powder ----20 grains of powder behind a 146 grain round nose bullet for the standard load----6 grains of powder and a 70 grain round ball for the gallery load.

Ralph Tremaine

On second thought I DO know what kind of powder-----black. (My feeble mind was in single shot mode------and that came along 30 some odd years later.)

And a belated addition: I'm thinking (guessing) there's a "filler" used in the standard load (to avoid an air space)---as I'm told "An air space in a black powder load is the definition of a pipe bomb" (!!!!) And that brings to mind another of my tests-----to see the effect of throat length. This one was with a Ruger Old Army. It started with a black powder load (I don't remember, but it seems like it was 20 grains.) with the ball seated on somebody's lubed wad. The ball's seated on the wad, and the throat length is maximum. Then I started in with a series of fillers (5/10/15 grains of corn meal) and the throat length shrunk down to zero in an almost linear fashion---the ball is now flush with the end of the chamber. All this is at 25 yards/seated/two hand hold/with a rest. The group size started out at about 4", and shrunk down to one ragged hole!!!! All this goes to show you some throat length is bad, more's worse, and too much is way worse!!------which is why shooting .38 Specials out of a 357 chamber is dumb (yet another test)---only that test was done with a machine rest----and there were NO questions!!

 

[rct269]

Same church, different pew--------------------

My VERY fuzzy memory says the NM #3 Target (in 38-44) has no forcing cone---other than (perhaps) a slight bevel.

My guns are long gone, so I'd appreciate it if someone would confirm that-----or tell me my memory's in need of a tune-up.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I believe this is the standard ammunition for the .38-44, as it was made as a target gun. No full-power +P SJHP loads needed.

It is possible light round ball loads would have also been made, usually called "Gallery".

One item about this round I recall is the case diameter is the same as .38 S & W, so this can be used in a .38-44. Not sure how accurate it would be, however.

Even with the somewhat rough looking label these are way too rare to shoot .

 

[DWalt]

The usual name is the .38-44 S&W, an antique round. There were two different versions. The standard load used a conventionally shaped lead bullet of around 146 grains. The other was a gallery load with a round ball seated deep in the case. It was used on indoor shooting ranges. The case is essentially an elongated .38 S&W case. Full original boxes of either are very desirable. I believe it was always a black powder cartridge. I have read that .38 S&W cartridges can be used in .38-44 S&W guns. The idea was to have the bullet located as close as possible to the rifling.