Old Stuff for $125, How'd I do?

[Clean Break]

Okay, I'll admit I used this title to suck you in. I've had all of these guns for years, but the facts are all accurate.

First, I traded off an AMT Backup .380 Auto (nice compact gun, served its purpose well oiled and hidden in my shirt pocket as a back up to my M9 Beretta on my hip which was my back up to my M16-A2 and 60 mm mortar) at a California gun show in 1989 and added $40 to get the .38 spl. Smith & Wesson revolver.

I wanted a handgun my wife could wear on her hip and hit reliably with while I was hunting, and she was alone in camp in the mountains.

It has a 6" barrel and is a Military and Police from the mid-40s I think. All of the serial numbers match on the frame, grips and crane etc. and are S 909 7XX.

I paid something like $220 for the AMT and it usually went bang 6 out of 6 times.... the K frame .38 always goes bang... the trigger breaks like a glass rod and all of those bullets go exactly where the open sights are aiming. I couldn't be happier with it.

The rifle is a Short Magazine Lee Enfield (No. 1 Mk. 111*) chambered in .303 British, made in 1917 in England.

I paid $85 for it at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store about 15 years ago, cleaned it up, rubbed 20 coats of boiled linseed oil on the stock and really enjoy shooting it. You can see some original armorer repairs on the stock in a couple places (I think they add character).

It likes 180 gr. Remington Round Nosed Core-Lokt factory ammo, but I've still got a few Turkish Milsurp rounds for it too.


The bayonet was a gift from a friend. It is stamped 1916 on it and has a 15 3/4" blade with offset blood grooves on each side.
When snapped onto the rifle, it makes for an intimidating combination (to include the brass butt plate for that infantry gesture known as a "butt stroke").

Here are some varmints that I got with the .303:

A couple questions:

1. 
   What can you tell me about my .38 special?
   Is it safe to fire +P ammunition in? (I haven't ever done so, but wanted to ask all the same).
   I know the handgun is likely some thirty years newer than my .303 SMLE. Which Smith and Wesson revolver would be a better suited period piece to accompany the WWI rifle (I know... Webley ... but I'd rather have a Smith).
   

I'm a collector... of experiences. I use my stuff like the tools they are. The nicks and scars on my Browning Auto-5 I inherited from my Grandfather (and those on these guns) are honest ones add to their value in my opinion, not detract. You can't hunt chukar in the mountains of Washington and not scar up your shotgun, your knees or your dog. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Thanks,
Clean Break

 

[Muley Gil]

A .455 S&W, either a 1st Model (triplelock) or 2nd model, would be a nice companion for your SMLE, though in common use, an officer or NCO would be armed with the revolver and a member of the "other ranks" (enlisted men) would have the rifle.

I like your tartan coyete hunting outfit. I shot a possum while wearing plaid lounge pants and had more comments on them than I did on the possum.

 

[Goony]

I agree about the .455 being the companion piece to your .303 - if you want to see what these look like, check out the following thread:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/238409-455-picture-thread.html

Although you didn't ask, I can tell you that your Military & Police most likely shipped around May of 1947.

Edit: I suppose I should answer the question you did ask. S&W's position is that they don't recommend shooting +P ammunition in guns manufactured prior to 1957.

 

[Texas Star]

Did you lose the magazine for the .303? Didn't see it in the coyote photo.

I take it that you saw the coyote through the window at breakfast where you could shoot it in the country, eh?

What was the range and the ammo? I think Winchester commercial 180 grain hunting ammo is best in that caliber, but I guess that even milsurp would blow heck out of a coyote.

If you're shooting that .303, best lay in a few key replacement parts. I've broken a couple of extractor springs and one striker head/cocking piece. (On different rifles)

The piddling repairs sometimes seen on these old rifles seem really miserly. Where a US armorer would just replace a damaged handguard, the Brits (or some former colony) spliced them!

 

[Clean Break]

I often keep the magazine loaded but out of the rifle; it snaps back in instantly. I don't remember which load I shot the coyotes in my back yard with- either the Turkish surplus load or it's hunting load - Remington factory .303 British 180 gr. Round nosed core-lokts. Mine prefers those over the two Federal rounds I've tried. Despite having accurate scoped rifles I usually tote this one for deer. The wooden forestock is warmer in the cold too.

The are beautiful .455 revolvers referenced above... But I would probably prefer one rechambered to .45 acp or maybe .45 Long Colt; again I am more of a shooter than a historical purist collector. The other option would be to get a M-1 Garand to pair with my Smith Military & police.... something I'd LOVE to do. Clean Break

 

[peyton]

Dang, your house coat and pajamas match!! What were you doing when the coyote decided to wander into the wrong neighborhood??

 

[DCWilson]

As you surmised, the .38 is an early postwar M&P; it probably shipped about mid-1947. Your gun still has the prewar and wartime long action. S&W moved to the short action on the M&P beginning in about April of 1948. The first short action M&P had a serial number around S990000. Long action and short action M&Ps can be distinguished at a glance by the hammer profile. The Long action guns have a very shallow dip on top, like yours, whereas the first short action hammers have a deeper pocket. The later hammer is called the "high-speed" hammer by S&W or just speed hammer by a lot of collectors. Some also call the later hammer the fish hook hammer, but S&W never used that term.

Those postwar M&Ps are extremely good examples of the general product line. Some of us feel the long action guns operate a little more smoothly than the short action, and there is a safety benefit in that guns produced after 1945 all include the improved hammer block safety.

I like the Enfield.

 

[Jack Flash]

Dang, your house coat and pajamas match!! ...

You are definately going to elevate the level of this Forum.

I would not hesitate to shoot +P in that revolver. As Goony said, however, S&W does not recommend it. This topic will be debated here till the end of time! Just do a little searching and you will get more results than you have time to read.

Glad to see someone else is knocking off coyotes whenever possible, and with an SMLE no less! I am a big fan of these rifles and it looks like you've got a good one. The only Number 1 Mark III* I currently own hails from Austrailia, but it is a great shooter.

 

[Deacon KC]

Love 'em both, but that Smelly is a doll. You should send the info on that to Tikirocker at Surplusrifle Forum • Index page for more background, he is our expert on those beauties.

 

[Hondo44]

Clean Break,

You remind me of an acquaintence in NC. He has shot a deer from every room of his house in various stages of dress.

 

[Scary Gary]

I just picked up a .455 that the Australians had.
It's been modified to shoot .45 COLT and I love it.

 

[Clean Break]

I just picked up a .455 that the Australians had.
It's been modified to shoot .45 COLT and I love it.

Awesome... post some pics!

I have a friend that wants to sell me his hand-ejector .455 also rechambered.... ... but I need (yet another) new salmon reel .... Shimano Calcutta and those aren't cheap.

DC Wilson and Goony: thanks for the information. '47 was a very good year in my opinion. That M & P is so smooth & balanced, I don't know that it could ever be improved upon.

RE: clothing and shooting from home: I am fortunate to be able to shoot at will from my deck whenever I want a variety of calibers over a variety of targets or game. Usually the .22 lr gets the nod, crows and depredators beware. I did drop a piebald deer with my 4 3/4" Ruger Bisley Vaquero .44 mag. one year.

Clean Break

 

[Hondo44]

clean break,

I was just recently sent a picture of a piebald cow moose! Send me an e-mail here: [email protected] if you'd like to see it.

 

[Clean Break]

I shot these when my two boys were both under 5 and liked to play in the back yard. When coyotes lose all fear and stare blatantly at you in the middle of the day... They need to go. With pigs, piglets and now goats back there, they need to be protected. Some city kids don't understand I'm sure. CB

 

[amd6547]

City kids should understand...I have seen coyote in my crowded suburb.
In the fall, I had just dropped off my wife at work in central downtown Cleveland...I was sitting at a red light (St Clair and East 9th, for those familiar with "the north coast") when I saw a coyote running at full speed down the sidewalk...he blew through the light and kept going. Funny thing...the pedestrians walking to their jobs seemed not to see him.

 

[Scary Gary]

@ Clean Break
I can't figure out how to post pictures with my DROID.
I can email them to you and you can post them.
Message me with your email address and I'll send them to you.