One round to rule them all

[t3hgruu]

Hello, I could use some options. Currently I have 3 revolvers in .357. They are a 686 plus 4”, a 66-3 4”, and a ruger LCR. I also plan to get a 66-8 with a 2.75” barrel at some point. I am trying to find a defensive load that will work fairly well with them all.

I am thinking of going for + P mainly for quicker follow up shots. I also am wary of potential damage to the forcing cone of my 66. I found this on Underwood’s website.
38 Special +P 125 Grain Bonded Jacketed Hollow Point – Underwood Ammo

It’s advertised as 1200 FPS with 400 ft. lbs. at the muzzle. It looks like it might perform well in various barrel lengths. However, it is a 125 gr bullet. Would this be something that could crack my 66? Obviously it’s a little pricey to plink with, but I do like to shoot my defensive loads every now and then for familiarity.

Any input on this round or other recommended loads would be appreciated. I use the same loads for my 1911s and would like to do the same for my revolvers. Makes ammo shopping a little more simple. Thanks.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Generally speaking, I prefer rounds that have a proven track record in actual shootings. I also prefer medium-to-heavy weight bullets for caliber. In .38 Special, I'd consider that 125gr and heavier.

The Speer 135gr SB-GDHP +P is a good choice. It's got a good track record, is reasonably controllable in snubs, and from what I've been able to gather it performs well in both snubs and 4" guns, though snubs are where this round shines. Availability can be sporadic since it's produced in 3-4 month cycles, IIRC, but can be purchased in 50-round boxes, typically in the neighborhood of $35/box price range, plus shipping (I like SG Ammo as an online vendor).

Another good choice is the old FBI load, the 158gr LSWCHP +P, or LHP +P, depending on maker. In general, the FBI load has established a very good track record in both snubs and 4" revolvers. The Remington version is a good choice and is available in 50-round boxes. My personal preference is for the Buffalo Bore standard pressure version, which has the same velocity/energy as the +P from other makers. It's only available in 20-round boxes, but, fortunately, revolvers generally don't require as much ammo for reliability testing. Their +P version has more power, 1000fps from a 2" barrel if IIRC. I find it kicks too hard in lightweight snubs, but you may be able to handle it so it may be worth a try.

If I were going to pick a load to use in both a lightweight snub and 4" steel K-frames I might lean towards the FBI load.

As for potential forcing cone damage on your 66, my understanding is that issues are limited to full-power .357 Magnum loads, i.e. 125gr JHP at ~1450fps. A 125gr bullet at 1200fps is in mid-range .357 Magnum territory, so it should be ok. My concern would be getting that performance from a .38 Special case, but since all your guns are .357 Magnum I can't see much of an issue, other than maybe potential sticky case extraction. I've never used this ammo so I can't say with any certainty. Maybe some more knowledgeable folks can chime in on this one.

There have been lots of threads here on recommended self defense loads in .38 Special. You should do a search if you haven't already.

 

[WR Moore]

I'll echo the above sentiments. I've never heard of Underwood. I tend to stick to factory rounds by major manufacturers for defensive use. Those would be: Black Hills, CCI, Cor-Bon, Federal, Hornaday, Speer, Remington and Winchester.

Having seen a few ruined guns, I tend to avoid boutique ammo makers. When you see claims of spectacular velocities at SAAMI pressures, there's a strong possibility of some creativity in the ad copy.

The Speer Gold Dots are effectively bonded bullets and have outstanding weight retention. They've done very well on the street. One of the issues with .357 diameter bullets is that they can be used at a very wide velocity range. If the bullet is stout enough to expand at .357 velocities, it frequently won't from a .38. If the design goes the other way, the bullet will come apart at .357 velocities and fail to penetrate to vital organs. The short barrel Gold Dots are intended for .38s.

The LSWCHP 158 grain +P may not be high tech or sexy, but it's got an established track record-if you put the bullet in the right place. No bullet is going to make up for poor shot placement.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I should also mention that Speer makes a .357 Magnum 135gr SB-GDHP that may meet your needs. Remington also makes a 125gr Golden Saber BJHP in .357 Magnum. Both are mid-range loads that should work well in all three of your guns. The only reason I didn't mention them earlier is that you specifically asked for .38 Special loads, but these, and other, mid-range .357 Magnum loads should be able to give you the kind of performance you're looking for without any overpressure worries in .38 Special cases.

 

[dubshooter]

I love the Gold Dot SB +P rounds. They shoot well. Carry well. Shown to work well if needed.

 

[992B]

I use a 150 to 158 grain jacketed hollow point by any of the major bullet makers, but prefer Hornady XTP. The powder charge is 14.0 grains of 2400 and primer is a small magnum, usually a CCI. Good accuracy, easy extraction, lots of noise!! Gary

 

[petepeterson]

I should also mention that Speer makes a .357 Magnum 135gr SB-GDHP that may meet your needs. Remington also makes a 125gr Golden Saber BJHP in .357 Magnum. Both are mid-range loads that should work well in all three of your guns. The only reason I didn't mention them earlier is that you specifically asked for .38 Special loads, but these, and other, mid-range .357 Magnum loads should be able to give you the kind of performance you're looking for without any overpressure worries in .38 Special cases.

This would be my suggestion, if you can find them. It gives you a little more performance than the .38, but it's on the lower scale of .357.

 

[WR Moore]

Went back and added Black Hills to the list of major manufacturers. I thought I was forgetting one, just remembered which one.

992B, there are threads about the inadvisability of carrying hand loads for defensive use. You might want to review them. Practice, no issues.

 

[t3hgruu]

Oh I am open to a .357. Would one of the lower power .357s still offer good performance in a snub nose? I think a couple years back I put a box of golden sabers through my LCR and the recoil wasn’t too bad.

 

[reddog81]

A 125 grain bullet going 1200 FPS would be basically the same as a light .357. I don't know anything about Underwood other than the make some of the most powerful 10MM ammo. Based on the stats you provided they also make some potent 38 Special ammo.

As far as using the exact same round in all my guns - that sounds boring. I like to go to the range and experiment.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Oh I am open to a .357. Would one of the lower power .357s still offer good performance in a snub nose? I think a couple years back I put a box of golden sabers through my LCR and the recoil wasn’t too bad.

I would be comfortable with lower-powered .357 Magnum HPs, like the Golden Saber, in a snub so long as they were reliable and I could shoot them well.

FWIW, when I carried a 3" 65 I occasionally loaded it with the Speer .357 Magnum 135gr SB-GDHP. I've also carried it with Speer .38 Special 135gr SB-GDHP +P and Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWCHP standard pressure loads and felt adequately armed with all three.

Choosing a quality HP with good terminal performance is important, but not as important as reliability and shootability, in my opinion.

 

[ameridaddy]

Have a look around here.
Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Magnum Pistol & Handgun Ammunition
His stuff does what he says, and his data comes from a named gun, not some 10" test barrel. Not cheap, but neither is your life.

 

[kthom]

I bought both .38 Special +P and .357 Mag ammo by Speer for short barreled guns (135 grain Gold Dot bullets) very recently from Midway. They had a bit of a sale going on. Not sure how long that was to last, but they had the ammo on sale. These came in the 20 round boxes. I'd rather buy them from SG Ammo in the 50 round boxes, but have not seen the Magnum rounds there for some time and not certain about the .38 Special. I had not found the Magnum SGDSB rounds anywhere for sometime, but apparently a batch of them have been released recently. You might check Midway and see if they still have any in stock. I like both of these rounds very much myself.

 

[t3hgruu]

Well I tried searching online and couldn’t find any golden sabers. It appears they have been discontinued. I also tried the low recoil .357 from Buffalo Bore through my LCR one. Lol in a 17 ounce revolver you are definitely reminded you are shooting a magnum round.

I think I am going to order these from Underwood.
38 Special 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point Gas Check – Underwood Ammo

These look ok to me.

I am going to wait until Friday and see if the get any in + P back in stock. There is a gun shop near me that has a decent ammo selection so I bet they would have some good dots. However, I work nights and it is very difficult for me to go there due to my sleep schedule. The offerings at the big box stores near me aren’t what I’m looking for either. Shipping is pretty high at a lot of online dealers considering I am only really needing a couple of boxes. If I was ordering a couple hundred rounds then it’s a little easier for me to justify it.

The last time I ordered from Underwood they were very reasonable on shipping, like less than 8 bucks. Also, when I called to ask about their .45 colt ME round they actual took the time to track down a tech and get him on the phone with me. He was very informative and helpful. Good customer service is so rare these days it goes pretty far with me.

 

[Mark IV]

Though the consensus seems to largely be that the M66 forcing cone issue has been somewhat overblown due to internet repetetion, it is still a valid concern.
IMO, there's no upside to testing fate by intentionally running extra hot,lighweight +P 357 rounds through an older M66. Heavier, standard velocity rounds are more than sufficiently effective, and don't run the risk.
If you get one of the newer 66's, then you're fine with any round you like, as S&W has supposedly addressed the thinned forcing cone issue.

EDIT: I just noticed the OP was actually asking about +P 38, not +P 357 (DOH!!! ), but at 1200 fps, this particular ammo is pretty spicy compared to regular 38, and even to most other +P's.
From what I just found, 357 runs roughly 1400fps in a 4" barrel, so this stuff is pretty close in velocity. If it were me, I'd want something a little tamer to run through a classic M66.

 

[Joe4d]

Here u go some good test results, Honestly though if I am gonna take the short comings of the extra weight and low capacity of a steel revolver I'm gonna carry full 357 ammo. 140 or 158 Hornady's,, and reap the benefits.
Other wise I'd just carry a compact 9mm, which drastically out performs any 38 special loading in short barrels, See the 9mm compact results about a 300fps edge over 38 special +p with same weight bullets plus a few more rounds onboard.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#9mm

 

[BigBill]

I load a very accurate 357 mag load. The 140gr JHP Speer bullet, 2400 powder and magnum primer. (6” barrel).

 

[Kanewpadle]

No reason to avoid Underwood Ammo. Great ammo and decent prices backed by outstanding service. Everyone has to start somewhere and most nay sayers have never even given them a shot. Their loss.

 

[Mark IV]

No reason to avoid Underwood Ammo. Great ammo and decent prices backed by outstanding service. Everyone has to start somewhere and most nay sayers have never even given them a shot. Their loss.

What naysayers ?? I don't recall anyone here badmouthing Underwood, in fact, the couple opinions expressed in this thread were actually postive. And their quality isn't the point here, anyway. The question is about high velocity rounds in a pistol that's potentially vulnerable to them.

 

[mrchuck]

I carry the .357 Smith model 60,,2"bbl.
It DOES light up a dark room when fired.
But the perp will not care anymore,,,,