Opinions/Info on M 3 .44-40 nickle requested

[ApacheBronco]

OK, so the interested party declined to purchase due to grips not being original. I didn't know...
I have less than a thimble full of knowledge compared to forum members. I am asking for your input.
I posted more photos to photobucket, but you cannot vary the magnification like a real pic.
I will send by email to anyone who requests photos of this gun. Tell me which photos you want with your email address. I don't want to clutter the forum with photos. (there are over 50)
Anything you can tell me to determine finish accuracy and value is appreciated. I can't list it until I can be accurate about its condition.
Lisa
ApacheBronco's Library | Photobucket

 

[glowe]

Let's start with the stocks. They fit perfectly, but I cannot tell if the right stock has a stamped serial number or not. It is normal to stamp the serial number, but with the fit so close, I would not discount the possibility that they are original. There are no reproduction stocks out there with the sharp front corner design of the early large frame Model 3s that I have seen.

All the parts that should be blue or case colored are just right and the markings look original without buffing or sanding. Normally, there is some loss of metal in a refinish and that makes the stampings weak or shallow, often giving them blurred edges. I do not see any of that in this revolver.

No one can be 100% certain looking at pictures and a formal in-person appraisal should be done if big money is attached to any deal. I, however, cannot find any missing nickel or improper refinish signs. The stocks were hand fitted to the frame and appear to be perfect fits. The revolver looks right to me and if offered at a decent price, I would not hesitate to buy it.

Forgot to add that the letter shows the revolver as being an antique. Any antique 44 Double Action Frontier should have a premium, since no FFL involvement is needed for a sale.

 

[ApacheBronco]

They have no appreciable stinky odor. Makes sense that there would not be aftermarket stocks for a low volume gun. Could they have been replaced early in its life? With S & W made stocks?

 

[mrcvs]

I will confess that I was the individual offered first refusal on this gun. First, the owner is most gracious! Let's mention that first and foremost! I questioned the grips due to the filing of the right grip, lack of serial number on this grip, and lack of the distinctive gutta percha smell. Otherwise, this firearm seems nice. Almost too good to be true! The seller does offer a 3 day inspection period. I did not wish to be costing the seller 2 way shipping for declining for petty reasons. Are my grip concerns real or ill founded? Even so, if later reproduction grips, probably well worth the asking price.

 

[ApacheBronco]

ROFLMAF! I just figured out what gutta percha meant! Never heard that term before!��

 

[glowe]

The butt-frame of the 44 DA is very close to the K frame revolver and I see a few out there with the rounded front of a K frame and they cannot be made to fit right. These guns were hand finished and the butt-frame is slightly different on each and every 44 DA out there. That is the main reason why many people are not happy with buying original stocks from the era, because they do not fit their revolvers quite right. There seems no better fit possible than what I see in the photos. As noted, too good to be true, but there are some out there even better that are said to be factory original.

I assume there is nothing on the inside of the right stock, or is there the appearance that something was scratched off??

My test for original hard rubber stocks are to take my thumb and rub briskly until your thumb burns from the friction and smell the inside of the stock. That will at least rule in or out reproductions. I think there should be some room for negotiation, in case one cannot state with certainty that the stocks are original.

I take back the availability of reproduction Model 3 stocks, since I found a set on one of the popular sites.

 

[ApacheBronco]

Ok, we just did the rub test and it smells like rubber. There is no markings on the inside of either stock. The one side is ground down probably due to excess casting.

 

[mrcvs]

Well...

The rubber smell is a good thing. Maybe these just are indeed the original stocks? If so, maybe the serial number had been inscribed in the right grip and later fitting obliterated it.

I just might have missed the boat on this one. Uncertainty when viewing these photographs, with the assistance of another individual, just proves how difficult it can be to judge something that is not in hand. Going back and forth for days vs making these same determinations more definitively in a matter of minutes with the firearm in one's direct presence.

 

[glowe]

We all have past regrets in not buying something we should have, but we all want to minimize the possibility of being unhappy about something we buy. I would think this issue would allow any potential buyer to bargain with the seller and if a mutual agreement cannot be reached, walk away.

What is a 44 DA Frontier with mis-matched stocks from the period worth compared to numbered stocks? That is the tough question to answer. The gun's condition, assuming original finish, truly puts it in the top few percent of all examples out there today and another one will just not be walking in the door tomorrow.

 

[orbruce]

The grips look lke original S&W grips. Grips aside I would have been more concerned that the gun had a target front sight and a regular rear latch, not a rear target sight type latch.

B. Mower

 

[mrcvs]

The grips look lke original S&W grips. Grips aside I would have been more concerned that the gun had a target front sight and a regular rear latch, not a rear target sight type latch.

B. Mower

Wasn't sure about that. I suspected a special order feature not documented in the ledger, and, therefore, impossible to document in a factory letter.

 

[ApacheBronco]

So my dealer friend took this to the Tulsa show where offers did not meet my reserve. It is now on a gun auction website. I learned a valuable lesson-do not buy antiques with a high abount of original finish. No one will believe it is not a refinish. It will sell for less than it should, which is how I bought it too. At least it won't be my problem anymore.

 

[mrcvs]

I refrained from commenting on this until the auction was over...

No, I was not the high bidder. It sold earlier today at the opening bid of $1800 which includes shipping, which suggests that this firearm does not contain an original finish, but yet that bid is paradoxical, as it is far too high for a refinish...BUT, there were only two photographs and a very limited description. Someone may, or may not, have gotten a bargain today.

What's the verdict on this one? Did anyone look at it at Tulsa?

Obviously, I never could come to a sound conclusion, from photographs, as to the true status of this one. If I could have come to a sound, and favourable, conclusion, I would gladly have forked over far more than $1800.

 

[DesmoEd]

So my dealer friend took this to the Tulsa show where offers did not meet my reserve. It is now on a gun auction website. I learned a valuable lesson-do not buy antiques with a high abount of original finish. No one will believe it is not a refinish. It will sell for less than it should, which is how I bought it too. At least it won't be my problem anymore.

Any serious collector should be able to tell if the pistol has been refinished by examining it in person. High condition antiques are really in demand as they are so few and they will increase in value with time vs the more numerous mediocre examples - but it must also be a highly desirable pistol, something the DA models are really not...

If your pistol had been an American Model or Colt SAA it would have garnished much more interest vs a DA S@W. Don't get me wrong, I like the big DA Smith's but they do not really have the collector following like other models do.

Also, take with a grain of salt any opinions you recieve over the web based upon photos alone...I posted some show and tell pics a while back of a very nice 2nd Russian in original nickel only to have one "esteemed" member strongly suggest it had been chrome plated...

Hopefully your next experience will be more positive.

Good luck, Ed