Over penetration?

NewToGuns17

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I shoot Winchester white box 9mm 115g fmj through my shield at the range but was recommended to carry hollow point. Is over penetration really a concern with 9mm range ammo? I would love to be able to load all my mags with range ammo and not have to unload the hp when I want to go shoot!
 
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over pen

yes it is a likely hood, you don't want to shoot someone behind the bad guy,unless it another bad guy. i once shot an armed robber that had a sawed off pump shotgun. all seven rounds went all the way through him, i was using full metal jacket 45 acp. just get some extra mags.
 
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I agree with that, which is why I never liked 9mm. I had occasion to meet Ayoob when someone hired him to testify at our courthouse. Seemed like a nice guy.
 
Just last night on Preacher a strip club owner lady took a bullet which penetrated her office wall.
It hit her in the chest while she was sitting at her desk.
Caliber unknown!
 
Quality hollow point defensive ammunition is advised for carry and home defense for a variety of good reasons. You should also be shooting some of it through your Shield anyway to confirm reliability and point-of-impact.

Do you really find unloading magazines such a chore?
 
I'm only a old Revolver guy -
But I thought the best way to unload mags was to shoot them until they are empty!

Certainly the most fun.

What you want is for the ammo to dump all its energy in the target. JHPs do that by blossoming and dissipating the energy via broader cross-section. They thereby cause more trauma and are more likely to incapacitate the target. FMJ is more likely to penetrate barriers as well as the person and continue along its way, possibly striking another. JHPs are the way to go for actual field use unless you expect to be up against those wearing armor or hiding behind barriers.......unlikely for a civilian.
 
Not at the range

Any ammo is ok at the range, except some folks don't like steel core or armor piercing bullets becaus it tears up their range.

Overpenetration is a real world problem, you shoot at somebody you don't want the bullet to go through a wall and kill the wrong person. FMJ and poorly performing jacketed bullets are prone to overpenetration.

Besides, JHP is much more expensive and you want to save that for the real deal and a little familiarization with how it shoots.

Most any mainstream defense ammo is good. Hornady XTP and Speer Gold Dots and such.

Something else that hollow points do are expand to make a larger wound channel.

Bullets are designed to expand in a range of velocities. The length of your barrel affects velocity



V
 
I wouldn't be too concerned about it. You are much more likely to completely miss your target then over penetrate through a target, and you should be aware of what is directly behind your target anyways. Has there ever been a case where a 9mm round went completely through a person and then did serious damage to another individual? Lets say a bullet pentrates 12" all the way through the mid-section of a person and then exits doing around 200 FPS. Is that bullet going to have enough energy left to do serious damage?

Don't get me wrong I'd prefer a hollow point, but realistically the over penetration factor is just as likely to come out in your favor as is is to be a liability. It's probably more likely that another bad guy is standing directly behind bad guy #1 than a little old lady or an innocent baby.
 
Not at the range

Any ammo is ok at the range, except some folks don't like steel core or armor piercing bullets becaus it tears up their range.

Overpenetration is a real world problem, you shoot at somebody you don't want the bullet to go through a wall and kill the wrong person. FMJ and poorly performing jacketed bullets are prone to overpenetration.

Besides, JHP is much more expensive and you want to save that for the real deal and a little familiarization with how it shoots.

Most any mainstream defense ammo is good. Hornady XTP and Speer Gold Dots and such.

Something else that hollow points do are expand to make a larger wound channel.

Bullets are designed to expand in a range of velocities. The length of your barrel affects velocity

Get an Uplula or similar loader to to make loading mags easy.

Get a few spare mags, keep one loaded with SD ammo.
 
Are Civilians not protected as are Police in over penetration shootings in regards to justifiable shootings, or where a very bad guy was committing mayhem and the shooting of him was justified?
 
Are Civilians not protected as are Police in over penetration shootings in regards to justifiable shootings, or where a very bad guy was committing mayhem and the shooting of him was justified?

Some states it may be, Florida may be one of those under their castle doctrine. IIRC in a justified shooting that the shooter cannot be sued, prosecuted. But that does not mean the prosecutor will not try to anyway.

Some states they go after the criminal, NC is one of the states where the criminal can be charged for injury, or death during a felony. Even if police, or a civilian causes the death, or injury.

The truth of the matter is criminals do not want an audience when they commit a crime. Most people not involved if there are going to get out of Dodge. Bullets through center mass do not retain much energy once they exit, they are not going far. In some shooting exiting rounds can be found within a short distance from the victim.

A professional boxer delivers more energy than a hollow point bullet. A strong person can withstand several blows, even though ALL of the energy is dumped. Centuries of shooting have proven that solid chunks of lead works. Recent decades of shootings have seen failures by hollow points.
 
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I was in a gunfight w/an armed robber in'74 and we carried +P round nose lead thirty-eight rounds then. I hit him four times and at least three were pass through center mass hits. Fortunately my backstop was a brick building so no one got hurt except the bad guy. Hollow points are designed with the safety of innocent bystanders in mind and you would be well served to invest in them.
 
Serious purposes require serious ammo. Go find a copy of Doc Roberts' duty ammo recommendations, pick a load that works well and you can shoot well, and get a bunch in order to test it for function. (Gary recommends 500 malfunction free rounds, IIRC without cleaning, before carrying a particular load.) For the cleaning fetishists, I have run far more than that through a few pistols without problems, just making sure that they were adequately lubed. and note that Wilson Combat recommends 300 - 500 rounds through a new pistol before cleaning or any disassembly.
 
I asked a recent veteran about the 9mm FMJ over penetrating through the body. He said they went through like going through paper plates.
I am surprised to hear a 45acp went through a person. One of the reasons I quit carrying 357 mags was because reports of over penetration.
 
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Yes, overpenetration is a concern. When NYPD switched over to 9mm semi-autos they issued FMJ. They ended up switching to JHP because they had several instances of FMJ rounds not only exiting bad guys, but continuing on and injuring bystanders and other officers.

As others have stated, there are other reasons to stick with JHP for self-defense use. 9mm FMJ makes narrow wound tracks that can "self-seal" to a certain extent because the elastic nature of tissue causes it to stretch before being penetrated, then springs back closed, minimizing trauma. Modern JHP do a good job of both penetrating and expanding, with some bullets recovered from actual shootings often looking like the expanded bullets from gel tests and marketing ads. The result is increased tissue trauma. And if they don't expand, the edge around the hollow cavity has a higher likelihood of causing trauma than FMJ due to a cookie-cutter effect. More trauma generally means better effectiveness in stopping an attacker.

JHP bullets also seem to have less ricochet potential. While this is often considered a benefit for misses or through-and-through shots, it can also improve effectiveness when bone is struck. Unless it hits the bone squarely, FMJ can ricochet off the bone and may not cause as much damage as a JHP whose edge can "bite" into the bone and damage it.

Have their been success with FMJ and failures with JHP? Sure. But I'd much rather have a round that gives me better odds of stopping an attacker.

JHP are not "magic" bullets. Don't count on "one-shot stops." A lot of variables are involved, such as the attacker's mental state, physiological state, physical build, drug use, etc. The only variables I can control are how well I can shoot and what type of ammo I use. I'll stick with JHP because they improve the odds of stopping an attacker, as well as reducing the odds of overpenetration.

Also, I've never understood the reasoning behind the "misses are more of an issue than overpenetration." Well, duh! How does that mean it's not a good idea to use JHP? I've never heard of anyone shooting well with FMJ ammo and then all of a sudden can't hit what they're aiming for with JHP. That's the only situation where that argument makes sense.

This is just my opinion. I'm sure plenty will disagree. Do your own research and come up with your own conclusions. However, I think you'll find that data supporting JHP as the best choice for a self-defense load.
 
Yes possible but quality hollow points actually work better for self defense. Just like with hunting.....a quality soft point/hollow point kills dear better than a fmj.

Fmj just pokes small holes. Hollow points transfer energy better and do more damage

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