pinned barrels

[chief38]

The barrel pin is a nice feature to have (bragging rights and nostalgia mostly) although in reality and practical usage I have never had any issues on guns without pins. While most of my smiths do have the Pin, some do not and I do not really look at a gun without a pin as a deal breaker assuming all else is perfect.

 

[R*E]

Are there any pinned guns with the front sight canted off center?

 

[michaelt]

All my S&W have a pin barrel . I won't buy the new pistols . I prefer the craftsmanship of the older pistols and the use of quality parts .
No lock and no MIM parts for me.

Besides my pistols are going up in value .

 

[MajorD]

Oddly enough one of my best shooting 38's was a non pinned 2 " 15 I wish I still had. Replaced with a pre 15 that does not shoot as well

 

[El Biblioitecario]

The advantage is that they command a relatively higher price when one sells. The disadvantage is that they command a relatively higher price when one buys. Other then that, in my highly biased opinion there is no practical difference.

 

[SilentKnight]

I had a model 66 with a pinned barrel. It was a round butt 2.5 inch barrel that I could remove and replace with a four inch barrel because they were pinned. At the time, that was the only round butt four inch 66 around. I really prefer the round butt on my longer barreled S&W revolvers. Beautiful in appearance and feel.

 

[Jack Flash]

I recall someone posting that Colt never pinned their barrels. FWIW

 

[shouldazagged]

I'm a high-mileage 1937 model. I hold to the doubtless irrational view that the older guns were built better and with more care, by real craftsmen, and therefore are superior.

I said it's irrational, okay? From all I read here, except for some canted barrels the new S&W revolvers are just fine. I still prefer the older ones, and that is almost certainly my advanced age and nostalgia talking.

I like the pinned barrel, quite apart from its actual usefulness. To me it's symbolic of greater care and precision, and pride in the production of a first-class gun.

 

[k22fan]

Even though the carcass has rotted away some new members might benefit from watching this horse's petrified bones being whipped again. Since this 5 year old thread was about barrel pins we can leave barrels that fit inside a shroud for another day.

All one piece S&W revolver barrels are and always were installed the same way. No S&W revolver barrels have interference threads. Barrels are screwed in by hand until the barrel shoulder contacts the frame. The barrel shoulder is cut back in a lathe as needed to make the shoulder contact the frame an eighth to a tenth of a revolution before the barrel rib and sight are straight up. To avoid warping the frame gunsmith tools are used to turn the barrel in the last fraction of a revolution.

While a pin was used the barrels were made with a trough cut across the top of the barrel's threads for the pin. Those troughs were generous enough for random barrels to be fitted onto random frames and still allow the pins to freely pass through. Ordinarily the pins only contacted the frame, not the barrel. The pins could only stop gross rotation of a loose barrel. Some S&W revolver barrels can be rotated so far off that the front barrel latch will not engage yet their barrel pin will still pass through the trough.

The barrel pin was non-functional. However, barrel pins were, and apparently remain, a great marketing gimmick. Other wise, there are only two things to know about them. They help to date the age of revolvers and, if you do gunsmithing, you need to remember to drive them out before removing barrels and put them back in afterward.

Five years ago a member asked in this thread if any pinned barrels were canted. While they were pinned they installed slightly canted just as often as they are now. I bought my first S&W with a canted barrel during the mid 1970s. It had an adjustable sight. I moved the windage to compensate then it shot great for all the years I owned it. A revolver's carry up, lack of rotational play and end shake at lock up, cylinder throat diameters and trigger pull are all more important than a slight barrel cant.

 

[jaymoore]

Pre-cut slot for pin on a Model 27 barrel.

Note that the pin was about too far back and had uneven contact. Not unusual to see slots with no contact at all! I've had plenty of pinned barreled revolvers with barrels under and over turned.

What I do like about pinned barrels is something nobody ever comments on, because it's unseen on an assembled revolvers: the lack of a thread relief at the shoulder. S&W got a bit nuts when they added that feature when pins went away as the relief cut is much larger than needed. Makes it easier to assemble, but also can more easily distort the bore, sometimes to the point it puts a slight joggle in the rifling. Depends on what ham fisted lout is assembling barrels to frames!

 

[Ole Joe Clark]

I like the pinned barrels, unpinned barrels, hand ejectors, but my all time favorites are those with S&W on them.

 

[BruceM]

It was a round butt 2.5 inch barrel that I could remove and replace with a four inch barrel because they were pinned.

This may be so but the barrel's were not re-installed properly. As I noted previously, when installing the barrel, the thread is timed so that the barrel when threaded into the frame hand tight is 45 to 60 degrees before top dead center. Hand tight means that the barrel cannot be further tightened without the use of proper tools. The frame is then turned the rest of the way to TDC using correct frame wrenches & barrel vice or correct factory tooling. This, for all intents and purposes, produces a "crush fit". The fact is that S&W revolver barrels have always been crush fit whether pinned or not. After removal, correct re-installation requires the barrel's shoulder to be set back, the barrel threaded in one additional turn in the manner previously outlined, the B/C gap reset and the forcing cone re-cut. Just threading a removed barrel back into the frame and tapping the pin back in may allow the gun to be fired but that does not constitute proper installation. Smith & Wesson revolvers are not switch barrel firearms such as Dan Wesson's are. Never have been-never will be.

If you are engaging in this substandard practice, watch yourself!

Bruce

 

[stu1ritter]

Barrels flying down the range, eh? Let's see now, they would have to make about 15 turns (approx) before they came loose enough for flight.

Stu

 

[BruceM]

Barrels flying down the range, eh? Let's see now, they would have to make about 15 turns (approx) before they came loose enough for flight.

You see, Smith & Wesson and Colt actually installs barrels that way (crush fit) because they needed to make the manufacturing process as expensive and their prices as non-competitive as possible. Besides, that 1/16" diameter could NEVER shear, right!! And how much force is that bullet carrying when slamming into the forcing cone multiple times. How likely is the shooter to notice the issue before the barrel does fly down range. Hell, many shooters don't even notice when a squib round is fired.

I personally feel that folks who engage in these "Bubba" type practices are fully vested candidates for the Darwin Award. What is it that Forrest Gump used to say about stupid?? That practice is stupid in at least five different ways stu1ritter! I really didn't want to characterize the practice in those terms but when challenged............

Then again, everybody needs to do what they feel is best for them.

Bruce

P.S. I feel strongly that all of those folks who feel just threading a barrel into the frame and driving home the pin is A-OK should engage in a write-in campaign informing S&W and Colt of how foolish, uneducated and misinformed they really are.

 

[steelslaver]

Thing is if the barrel isn't torqued up you would get poor accuracy pin or no pin. Barrels vibrate as the bullet and pressure move down the barrel. A barrel that wasn't torqued would move a lot more under the stresses than one that was torqued, pin or no pin.

I have removed some of each and the pinned barrels sure seem to be as tight as the unpinned ones. I have had a barrel that was loose and even with a good straight pin it would move an easy 5 degrees in either direction. The canted barrel thing has nothing to do with the pin and everything to do about craftsmanship and quality control. The pin maybe a mark of an era of craftsmanship, but then why are pinned model 25s infamous for large throats. Where was quality control and craftsmanship there?

I just bought a beautiful 25-5 with pinned barrel and .458 cylinder throats. Would have rather had .452 throats and no pin. I'll be reaming another model 29 cylinder to make it right. I got it at a great price so I don't mind.

The pin is like the top side plate screw, the rebound spring screw and recessed cylinders and for that mater the third lock. All are very interesting, but unnecessary to make a truly fine, dependable accurate revolver. I have some with all these features and some with none. If I had a choice between a 5 screw model 29 and a 3 screw with no pin or recessed one. both the same condition with the same price I would of course take the 5 screw, but, only because it has more value, not because I think it would shoot any better.

If a new gun has issues it isn't because it is missing these features or has MIM parts. It is because S&W has failed to keep or train and replace the key craftsmen in some critical assembly areas and the failure of the quality control department to inspect and reject poor examples and communicate those problems to the responsible parties. They still make some great guns, but this failure is tarnishing a great old companies reputation.

 

[tires2burn]

S&W Model 60 barrel defect

I got my M- 60 a couple of months ago and noticed a ridge or ring on the inside of the barrel right about where the forcing cone meets the barrel. It rings the whole inside of the barrel. Whats the deal? My 686 shows no ring like that. I want to call S&W but not sure if this is normal.