Plain old NM3

[bcowern]

I am growing quite fond of the S&W NM3 Single Action, and as fate would have it, a plain old NM 3 has decided to emigrate to Canada, and has come to live with me.

This one is in 44 S&W Russian, and has quite a bit of original finish. Barrel, frame, cylinder, and latch have matching numbers. The grips are not numbered, but are an excellent fit, and I think they are original to the gun.

It has a much nicer trigger pull than another NM 3 I had that was one of the ones shipped to the Japanese government, but not as nice as a NM 3 target variation I have.

As stated by Member rpf2000 in his January 26, 2024 thread:

".38 Double-Action Perfected"
"The sights are very small and not really usable. Pointing towards the target and aiming down the barrel is more effective."

Would it be safe to shoot Fiocchi ammunition that is loaded with smokeless powder, a 247gr lead bullet, a MV of 820 ft/sec, and 320 ft/lb ME in this revolver?

What about Black Hills Ammunition which is loaded with 210gr lead bullet with a 650MV, and a 197ft/lbs energy?

Regards,
bcowern

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I don't believe the Fiocchi ammo was loaded to be "Smokeless for Black Powder" like the English did. I use real Black Powder in my Uberti Reproductions of No 3 Russians and they are well over 100 years newer!

I have a 25 round box of the Fiocchi ammo. I've owned it about 20-25 years and it was very old when I bought it. I have no idea when they last loaded that round. But all the boxes I've ever seen are identical to mine!

I also trust Trail Boss hand loads but that powder is in very short supply.

I tried Pyrodex Ctg. in a number of BP cartridge, but velocity and felt recoil were inconsistent. So I burnt over half of that can and returned to FFFg, and plenty of SPG bullet lube.

I have some pre WW II Winchester brass and modern Starline Brass. I had bought 500 "Top Brass" but most of it split on the first or second firing.

Ivan

 

[bcowern]

Thank you for your reply Ivan. I'll keep your reply in mind should I get the components and dies to reload.

I was hoping somebody with experience using commercial ammunition loaded with smokeless ammunition in a NM3, either single or double action, in any calibre, would weigh in.

I also have a NM3 chambered in 45 Schofield and I see Black Hills Ammunition offers this with 230gr bullet with a 730MV.

Would this be a safe load?

Regards
bcowern

 

[jeffrefrig]

I have a Model 38 2nd model, (I believe I have all the numbers in the right spots) and it's made for the .38 S&W short cartridges. After <10 rounds fired through it, I found out that the factory ammo I bought for it made it break...specifically the dang hand broke. Too much pressure on that tiny thing. Seems you may know how to reload, unlike me, so be careful and listen to these guys when they talk about loading your cartridges with what powder, etc. I have a post down below in this section with a couple pictures if you want to mourn with me! (Okay, the gun was cheap @ $300 for decoration until I found they sold the .38 shorts.) It's still a decoration until I can find a hand.

 

[Exmilcop]

First off, LOVELY PISTOL!!! Lucky you, my fellow canuck. Now, as to loads. I know some folks will flame me for this but all the research and shooting I've done has me using HP38 powder, Trail Boss being hard to source. I've used the Fiocchi without issue but never tried the Black Hills ammo. Rusty Woods sells reloads as well. My load data says 4.2-5.0 gr. powder on top of 200gr. soft cast and 4.0-4.8 gr. with the 240gr. bullet. I load mid range on that data chart with no issues.

 

[Freischütz]

Here's some Accurate Arms data. The loads are for a reproduction revolver. So, I'd regard the "starting" loads as maximums.

 

[bcowern]

I have a Model 38 2nd model, (I believe I have all the numbers in the right spots) and it's made for the .38 S&W short cartridges. After <10 rounds fired through it, I found out that the factory ammo I bought for it made it break...specifically the dang hand broke. Too much pressure on that tiny thing. Seems you may know how to reload, unlike me, so be careful and listen to these guys when they talk about loading your cartridges with what powder, etc. I have a post down below in this section with a couple pictures if you want to mourn with me! (Okay, the gun was cheap @ $300 for decoration until I found they sold the .38 shorts.) It's still a decoration until I can find a hand.

Thanks for your reply. I feel your pain as parts for these antiques can be difficult/impossible to find.

I'm having trouble trying to wrap my head around how smokeless commercial ammo caused the hand spring to break.

Regards,
bcowern

 

[bcowern]

Here's some Accurate Arms data. The loads are for a reproduction revolver. So, I'd regard the "starting" loads as maximums.

Thanks for the info.

 

[moralem]

I have shot Black Hills and my gun survived, but it was just a few rounds. I plan to shoot it again, but for now it is safely stored away. You pay your dime and you take your chances.

 

[rct269]

The loads for NM #3's are easy-----BLACK POWDER!

Needless to say, you can go right on shooting smokeless---until you can't.

A word to the wise: Read what those who know tell you. Start with Dave Chicoine's books---they'll save you a lot of time.

End of rant!!

Ralph Tremaine

OH!-------not quite the end: A wise and old black powder hand once gave me this little snippet of advice: "A black powder load with air space is the definition of a pipe bomb!" A bit of compression of the powder eliminates the risk.

 

[bcowern]

Ralph,

Thanks for your reply.

You have me convinced. Black powder it is!

Regards
bcowern