Please explain the deal with trigger reset

[Smith357]

So I'm an old curmudgeon who has been a revolver shooter for as long as I can remember. I have owned a few 1911s over the years but never really cared much for them. I recently purchased a M&P45 ( I like it a whole lot better than the 1911s I had, and it's a far sight more reliable) while doing research on the M&P all I seemed to read was all this stuff about the trigger reset and how poor it is in the M&P and how everyone spend another $100 on aftermarket parts to fix it. Well I guess I just don't get it and need some help understanding what the big deal is over trigger reset, my revolvers triggers do not reset until they are completely released. The M&P resets after just a 1/4 of the stroke and does not clank or kick back nearly as hard as the DA revolvers, and that is supposed to be bad for some reason? Should not the shooter be focusing on the target and sights rather that the trigger reset? When shooting the M&P I would complain about the mushy 2 stage military pull before the reset, I did the Burwell trigger job for the mushy 2nd stage pull not any reset value.

 

[mlk18]

When Glocks ate up the police market in the early 1990's cops were not shooting it very well. So Glock and Police Firearms Instructors decided the best way to shoot the Glock was the fire the gun, hold the trigger to the rear, slowly let it out until the trigger reset and then fire again. Essentially eliminating the triggers pre-travel and theoretically making follow up shots faster and more accurate. It became a basic requirement for Glock shooters and now every other polymer framed gun that comes out had better have an tactile and audible reset too. This follows the same trend that if anything comes on to the market with a trigger heavier than 5.5lbs it is "extremely heavy" and people just cannot shoot it well. When the majority of firearms instructors started telling people not to slingshot their slides because it was a fine motor skill, every one jumped on board that bandwagon too. But guess what, everything you do with your fingers is a fine motor skill. And every time you shoot that second shot the trigger reset. Loud click or not.

 

[JaPes]

M&P all I seemed to read was all this stuff about the trigger reset and how poor it is in the M&P and how everyone spend another $100 on aftermarket parts to fix it. Well I guess I just don't get it and need some help understanding what the big deal is over trigger reset, my revolvers triggers do not reset until they are completely released.

The complaint about the M&P trigger isn't the distance to reset, but that the reset point feels vague. The trigger reset doesn't communicate itself to the shooter. On other semi-auto handguns, particularly Glock, when you release the trigger there is a palpable & slightly audible click.

Smith357, I'm in the same camp as you. The stock trigger on my M&P 9 is just fine. After 800 rounds, I now know exactly where the trigger reset is, and there's definitely no chance I'll short stroke it.

I dry fired the M&P Shield. It's trigger feels like a standard M&P through the pull & brreak, and has a palpable reset.

It became a basic requirement for Glock shooters and now every other polymer framed gun that comes out had better have an tactile and audible reset too. This follows the same trend that if anything comes on to the market with a trigger heavier than 5.5lbs it is "extremely heavy" and people just cannot shoot it well.

Never understood this either. I'm of the opinion that while a firearm's trigger is important, the skill and ability of the nut behind the trigger is more important. I used to subscribe to the "anything more than 5.5 lbs is heavy" philosophy until I challenged myself to shoot a LCR 357.

Learning to shoot a decent DAO revolver trigger made me a better DA/SA & Constant Action trigger shooter.

 

[WR Moore]

Holding the trigger in the fired position while riding out the recoil and then resetting it once you're back on target predated the existance of the Glock. As did the very noticable point that the trigger reconnected.

I don't have an issue with the M&P either. It's the only stock firearm I own.

 

[Smith357]

The complaint about the M&P trigger isn't the distance to reset, but that the reset point feels vague. The trigger reset doesn't communicate itself to the shooter. On other semi-auto handguns, particularly Glock, when you release the trigger there is a palpable & slightly audible click.

It's been so long since I have trained with a semi auto I really have nothing to compare the new M&Ps with other than the old M&Ps. The last time fired a Glock, back in the late 80s when they were new, my impression was they had the most horrible trigger I had ever felt. The other day at my local gun store, that caters to the tactical gang, the owner took time out and showed me how how much better the Glock trigger is than the M&P, after 30 years it was as horrible as I remembered, but it did click when I released it. To be fair the M&P trigger was no better or worse than the Glock but neither will ever hold a candle to my old S&W wheelguns when it comes to smooth crisp tactile feel even if they are 8+ lbs in DA. If I can remember right the 1911s had very nice triggers that were pretty easy to tune, they just did not work when I put ammo in them.

Smith357, I'm in the same camp as you. The stock trigger on my M&P 9 is just fine. After 800 rounds, I now know exactly where the trigger reset is, and there's definitely no chance I'll short stroke it.

I guess I've trained with DA revolvers for so long I'm just used to moving my finger for a full stroke for every shot, though I only have about 500 rounds through my M&P I have yet to short stroke the trigger.

 

[kris7047th]

I too have a bad habit of letting the finger off the trigger reset , especially when I get tired, or over think. It takes a lot of practice, but it is better to get with someone to teach you correctly first .. and then practice.

 

[cracker57]

I too have a bad habit of letting the finger off the trigger, especially when I get tired, or over think. It takes a lot of practice, but it is better to get with someone to teach you correctly first .. and then practice.

So what is the correct way, Thats how I want to practice
Cracker57

 

[StatesRightist]

Smith357,

This is just my opinion....

I've always seen it as more Block Fan Boy rhetoric. My first gun was not a Glock and I didn't buy it at the Mall last week. Every model of gun has a little different trigger feel. I've see a noticeable difference even in the "same" gun when picking one out of a dealer's case when they had multiple's of the same new guns. The bottom line is a good shooter adapts between Semi's, revolvers, 1911's etc and goes on. Every gun does not and never will have the exact same trigger.

I know people who almost worship Glock and it's the only gun made to them. I don't get it, but whatever flips their lid. I don't buy their trigger superiority, I surely don't buy some of the silliness I see "instructors" spewing today and I certainly don't buy Glock as the model all guns should be built after. Especially when I take my "outdated" 1911's, 3rd Gen S&W's and revolvers out and shoot rings around the plastic addicts.

JMO.....no offense intended to anyone...except maybe Glock, lol. I love'em, I really do, trust me on this.......

 

[kris7047th]

So what is the correct way, Thats how I want to practice
Cracker57

Knowing where the reset is and not letting go. But I think that you know that.

 

[toocool]

I personally don't hold a lot of stock in the "trigger reset" discussion. When I'm punching paper at a slow rate, it's easy to do, and the positive reset the Shield has doesn't really help or hinder me in accurate shooting vs. fully letting the trigger out. In a defensive situation, though, I would think I have more to worry about than finding that reset point.

 

[OKFC05]

I personally don't hold a lot of stock in the "trigger reset" discussion. When I'm punching paper at a slow rate, it's easy to do, and the positive reset the Shield has doesn't really help or hinder me in accurate shooting vs. fully letting the trigger out. In a defensive situation, though, I would think I have more to worry about than finding that reset point.

And conditioning yourself to let the trigger out barely enough to reset WLL bite you when you switch to another gun.
I don't conciously try to use minimum trigger stroke, but having been shooting an M&P Pro a lot recently, I got bit when I took out a Brn HP .40 to shoot in one match. The Brn reset is long, and I must have short-stroked it half a dozen times in the first 2 stages. Now THAT is eating up time.

One reason the custom 2011 guys rail against the M&P trigger is that they can't use as short a stroke as their 2011 custom triggers, so it must be the M&P's fault, right?

I bet lunch money that if the M&P trigger sounded a gong and lit a bulb, they would still short stroke it until they adjusted to a longer reset than the 2011.

 

[g_conway]

There are two parts to the "upgrades" mentioned here.
Athe APEX DCAEK kit has to do with trigger pull smoothness more than anything else. The rest change is somewhat minimal.

The APEX RAM kit (about $30) has a much larger effect on the reset feel. It does not change the reset point, just the audibal and tactile results of that reset. It becomes very consistant and easy to work with.

As to the NEED of either of these mods, it's non-existant. As to the ENJOYMENT of these mods, it's extreamly high. I have put both of these mods in mine and find it makes my gun and trigger control much better.