Please help identify my 1917 Hand Ejector .45

[Epeeist]

Hello all, thanks for taking the time to look at my post and pics. I don't do a lot with older guns so I am hoping to get some info from the collective expertise here in the forums on this pistol.

What I "think" I have is a 1930's Civilian market 1917. It shoots great, is in wonderful mechanical condition and has one of the better single and double action pulls I have come across. It is chambered in .45 acp and the bore is in good shape.

The serial numbers on the bottom of the barrel and the grip frame match, as does the inside of the side plate. It is a 5 screw model with the small logo and fixed sights. It does not have any US government or Army markings.

I think it is the original blue, as it has the same deep blue (purple in spots under the right light) finish as some of my older S&W wheel guns like my model 27, but without the very high polish of that gun. The patina seems to be all above the blue and I do not see much in the way of freckling or sanding marks under the blue. However if it was done "right" and a factory blue job, I probably would not...

Any additional info, value and rather or not it has an original finish or is a factory reblue would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Epeeist]

And a few more pics. I am particularly curious as to what the stampings on the frame might mean.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

You have a Brazilian version of the 1917, that was produced in the late 1930s. It should have had a Brazilian crest on the sideplate. It appears to have been polished away prior to a reblue (probably non-factory). A factory reblue should be stamped R-B and those marks would be inside of a stamped box. It is missing the lanyard loop. The grips are modern reproductions.

Yours was imported by Navy Arms, Ridgefield NJ. The other stampings are assembler's marks. It should be a great shooter.

 

[Hondo44]

Muley Gil nailed it! I agree with everything he posted.

In 1937 S&W made some 25,000 1917s for Brazil, most in serial range 181983-207043 with post WW I produced flat top frame and sq notch sight, and these are marked with a made in USA on right frame side with the S&W trademark on left side of frame. They also have a Brazilian Crest on the side plate dated 1937. The early contract Brazilian 1917s had commercial checkered grips with flat chrome plated medallions.

Another Brazil contract run in 1946 used surplus WW I produced frames with older style round top strap and u notch rear sight.

If I read your serial # correctly, it's a 46 contract gun also proved by the butt serial # reading with barrel to the left.

 

[lebomm]

Note that it also has a late-style ejector rod with knurled end under a barrel with cut for a mushroom-style. This could indicate a later cylinder or replacement ejector parts, no? Stocks are from a late "Classic" model.

Larry

 

[Hondo44]

Larry,

Good eye! Yes, a post war/post '46 Brazilian contract ejector rod replacement. I don't see the groove behind the checkered tip indicating the post ~ 1961 left hand thread change, so it's most likely still right hand thread.

 

[Epeeist]

Thanks for all the info everyone, I really appreciate all the details! Sounds like I should not worry to much about preserving it as a collect able and can just enjoy shooting it.

I might even take it to my local gunsmith and see what he can do to make it more friendly to aging eyes. Those blade and notch sights get harder to see every year!

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass!

 

[trcscout]

looking for info on a S&W model 1917 I just bought

I just bought a S&W model 1917 & would like to know info about it, it is in amazing condition & the barrel bore is perfect. can you tell me the year it was made & if the symbols on the crane, cylinder and bottom of the barrel mean anything, also there is a 27 (left side) on the frame under the wood grips & a 4 (right side) under the grips. I could only add 5 photos, I guess can add more pictures on a reply. Any help would be appreciated, thanks, Troy

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Is this revolver marked "US ARMY MODEL OF 1917" on the butt?

 

[Hondo44]

Welcome to the forum.

Produced in 1918. Numbers on the sides of the grip frames are normal S&W inspector stamps found on all of their Hand Ejector models.

The large numerical #s under the barrel indicate an arsenal rebuild.

Just click on POST REPLY to add more pics.

1917 PRODUCTION SUMMARY:

Military 1917s are in the range #1 thru # 169959 with 163,635 revolvers completed and delivered in 1918, and approximately 7,300 revolvers were delivered partially completed and were not counted in the 163,635 figure. As usual with S&W, revolvers were not completed in order of their serial numbers and all numbers may not have been used. All were shipped to Springfield Armory.
Both S&W and Colt were allowed to purchase M1917 revolvers left over when their rebuild contracts were terminated at the end of WWII. (Pate, see below for full text.)

If there's an extra large stamped # up to 5 digits sometimes with an R or S in the yoke, under the barrel, or both places, it's an arsenal # indicating an arsenal rebuilt gun. The R may be found on the frame left side as well.

Most early WWI 1917s are marked "GHS" in a circle, (Gilbert H. Stewart), Gov't inspector, there's also a GHD Guy H. Drewry inspector from 1930-1957 (with various increasing ranks in front of his name), who was in charge of the Hartford Ordnance District and under whose authority and name, ordnance contractors stationed at the S&W factory inspected guns both for Lend-lease and for ASP (Army Supply Program) contracts.
), left side frame up near the hammer serial number range 1-42000. Middle range guns are marked with a flaming bomb, beginning c. #42000, April 1918. Most 1917s have round top straps and a U notch rear sight. Later frames have been observed with flat top strap and square notch rear sight; example #113934. It is not known when this change was initiated.


War time 1917s did not have S&W trademark logos (nor did any hand ejectors following the war until ~ 1920).

Earliest have smooth, concave round top stocks and circular hammer grooves up to about #15,000. Although, many have been observed sporadically up to the #20,000 range. As with all things S&W, there is seldom a specific serial number cut off. Deletion of the stocks w/concave top and the hammer grooves were of the earliest changes.

Late war time produced guns are marked in various locations with an eagle head over an "S" followed by a number like S1, S2, S3, S4, S6, S9, S24, S27, and S34, from April 1918 to war's end or serial number 169959.
These marks are inspector marks used on Military guns which are also marked "United States Property" on the underside of the barrel.

The butt of the gun will have a two line serial number (when over 3 digits) and U.S. Army Model 1917 in four lines as well as a lanyard ring (which is the earliest version; polished and case colored, not sandblasted and blued). "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" is roll stamped under the front end of the barrel.

• Serrated trigger order change March 18, 1929

"WW I U.S. 1917 hammers and triggers are slightly different from later N frame parts." Lee Jarrett

Cylinder hold open detent:
In my experience every 1917 had the cylinder hold open detent in the yoke bell crank as did all pre war N frames and some early I and K frames. It's been reported that some 1917s do not have the detent as a war time expedient, but of the hundreds of 1917s I've seen all did or at least had the hole with wear evidence that the detent spring and pin were lost. Use caution if you remove the yoke and cylinder from the frame or the spring and plunger can launch across the room.

Serial/Government numbering of 1917s, Smith vs. Colt:
Many do not know that S&W 1917s are #d differently from Colt 1917s.

The S&W serial # on the butt, as opposed to Colt, served a dual purpose; it was also S&W's government #. The serial number on the COLT US Army Model of 1917 is stamped on the frame, opposite the crane, and a different number on the butt of their 1917 is the government #.

S&W Assembly (factory work) #s: These tiny multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the 'yoke cut' on frame opposite the yoke, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and post war period to ~1958.

 

[trcscout]

Yes, with #88470 on the butt also

 

[trcscout]

There is also a eagles head with a S27 on the cylinder & a eagles head over a S3 on the frame where the crane hings is.

 

[trcscout]

There is also a eagles head with a S27 on the cylinder & a eagles head over a S3 on the frame where the crane hinge is.

 

[Hondo44]

There is also a eagles head with a S27 on the cylinder & a eagles head over a S3 on the frame where the crane hinge is.

Yes, saw those. Explained in my post #11.

Is the arsenal rebuild # 5401 from under the barrel stamped anywhere else, like in the cyl yoke?

 

[trcscout]

the #5401 is stamped three places (under the barrel, the frame above the hinge, & on the crane of the cylinder.

 

[trcscout]

another question, do you know what the #88470 means, that is stamped on the butt, the cylinder & under the barrel.

 

[Muley Gil]

"...do you know what the #88470 means..."

That is the S&W serial number, as well as the US Gov't number. #5401 is number that was used to keep the major parts together when it was rebuilt.

 

[trcscout]

Thank You very much for all the info, one other question, what would the other # number had been for (56600) stamped on the frame & the crane, since the 88470 is the serial #

 

[crsides]

that is a factory assembly number. Means nothing to anyone but the factory, and they didn't keep records on it.

Charlie