Pls read - Standard vs Magnum Primers

38SPL HV

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Interesting article by Larry Gibson over on Castboolits.

Comparison of various SP and SR primers in the 357 Magnum

Take away - even though average MVs are pretty close using standard vs magnum primers, psi spikes are disconcertingly higher using magnum primers with subject load (6.0 grs Unique) compared to the high psi figures obtained using standard primers.
 
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Interesting article, Thanks sir! Especially interesting for someone who has been using CCI SRP in 9mm for over a year. That said, all of my loads in any caliber, are right at the book minimum or just a tiny bit above.
 
Handloader magazine did an article specifically on this issue in the recent past. They said it was "okay" to substitute regular with magnum primers with in reason. I tend to put more faith in their staff then just about anyone on any forum as of late.

A long read, a lot of effort put into it. Still an "opinion" as even the author stated.

Regards from the Commonwealth,
Rick Gibbs
 
Mostly meaningless and faulty conclusion. The author chose to only use Unique which I quit using a long time ago due to inconsistency with it. He doesn't test any other powders but concludes with the statement;

"In the 9mm P with it's much smaller case capacity? I would not use any other primer than a standard SP primer with other than a "starting load".

So is he saying that with the 9mm he only uses starting data for every powder? If so what is the point of listing a powder range and their velocities?

I am curious what the readings will be for factory loaded ammunition intended for self-defense.
 
No pressure testing, but there was an article in HANDLOADER #251 comparing accuracy, velocity, etc. with a variety of small pistol standard and magnum primers in the .357 cartridge. Test gun was a 6" Python. A 158 gr. cast SWC and 296 (I think ) powder was used.
 
…some good points particularly regarding primer types and powder (wonder how other powders would work). I'm still using my CCI 550 with published load data in 357 Mag in my Ruger Blackhawk.

…checking my latest Lyman data..they do not list Unique in any of their 150-170 gr cast bullet loads…they do list up to 8.3 grs Unique with jacketed 158 gr HP.

I'm sticking with my published load data…I trust that they're doing it right as well in their controlled and well equipped ballistic lab environments.

Bottom line as always, use your published data, "start low and work up" over a chronograph. It's becoming my mantra finally!
 
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Handloader magazine did an article specifically on this issue in the recent past. They said it was "okay" to substitute regular with magnum primers with in reason. I tend to put more faith in their staff then just about anyone on any forum as of late.

A long read, a lot of effort put into it. Still an "opinion" as even the author stated.

Regards from the Commonwealth,
Rick Gibbs

What is the Handloader Magazine #? I'm going to see if I can purchase. I too trust Handloader, my go to for many excellent loads, Thanks
 
Interesting article by Larry Gibson over on Castboolits.

Comparison of various SP and SR primers in the 357 Magnum

Take away - even though average MVs are pretty close using standard vs magnum primers, psi spikes are disconcertingly higher using magnum primers with subject load (6.0 grs Unique) compared to the high psi figures obtained using standard primers.

Using a fairly light load for .357 with one of the worst powders I have ever used for ESs makes his conclusions meaningless.
 
Mr. Gibson often posts interesting posts usually backed up with reliable data. I believe he has done extensive testing on proper equipment but being a gentleman always includes "Just my opinion...".
 
Using a fairly light load for .357 with one of the worst powders I have ever used for ESs makes his conclusions meaningless.

I've read some of Mr. Gibson's material and he always does good, extensive work even if we may not always agree with his conclusions. However, the primer project using Unique powder seems to be perfectly valid and he adds a disclaimer in bold letters that none of his results were to be construed as a general rule of thumb.

Yes, other powders and different charges would provide different figures. These projects, even the simple ones, require tedious work and a lot of time, not to mention incurred expenses. To change just one factor (component, charge weight, etc.) makes for an entirely new project and lots more time, work, and expense. No one can be expected to do such work endlessly.

For what Mr. Gibson put into this and considering the necessary parameters to make the report manageable, I think it's a good one.

Today's fixation with ES and SD numbers is hard to imagine. These numbers indicate consistency only, not accuracy. There are many, many other factors that come into play and contribute to accuracy. While it's possible to have a good accurate load that has low SE and SD numbers, it's just as likely that a load with mid-range to even high numbers might shoot just as well. If the numbers are really wild, the load will probably be a poor one, but we don't often get real wild numbers.

ES and SD probably aren't worth considering if your group sizes are consistently small. The exception to this might be at long range.

If you want low ES and SD numbers, try compressed rifle loads using slow-burning power. Numbers are often very small or even the same. The loads may or may not be accurate.
 
"Pressure" info obtained with a strain guage. Junk science at best.

I own no pressure testing equipment nor have I seen such used. How are strain gauges junk science? No criticism, I'd like to learn.

Dr. Ken Oehler used to sell these strain gauge setups. I always thought him to be an honest person who did good work and sold quality products.
 
I recall some stress analyses done on our aircraft windshields to help root cause cracking of glass overlays…they were a transducer type strain gauge…those were fairly conclusive.
 
…I have only the best to say about Larry Gibson and appreciate his fine work. His is another data point which we may consider. I'll keep deferring back to contemporary published load data (not Speer #8) and will rely on their instructions.
 
I've always thanked larry gibson for his work. Along with pointing out his use of 1 powder/bullet combo in a lot of his testing.

Everyone sees different things in this testing. I'm no different and would like to see testing done with the same bullet/reloading dies/firearm. Specifically looking for the consistency of the short start pressure & bullet retention from the case walls using titegroup.

IMHO:
Larry's testing is showing a secondary pressure spike from the bullet moving forward in the lllloooonnnnggggg throat of the contender bbl. Some rounds have the bullets held firm while other rounds let the bullet move forward stopping in the leade of the chambers throat.

I've seen this in a lot of his 357mag testing. Hot primers tend to do this with all the powders he's tested.
 
I have no faith in the accuracy or repeatability of strain gauges. I wouldn't believe anything other than peak chamber pressure data derived from using SAAMI or CIP piezo measurement methods and dedicated pressure testing barrels.
 
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