hillbillydruggist
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LIGHTLY, how anyone ever tried this? I'm trying to slick up the action like an old wingmaster.
thanks
thanks
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polishing 870 action bars
- Thread starter hillbillydruggist
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Unless there is roughness or burrs I do not see any reason to polish.
I have found bent and/or twisted action bars that were dragging on very few well used 870s that came across my table.
Careful straightening and untwisting has always cured the problem for me.
If you have a well used 870 any area that "might" be in need of polishing will be apparent by missing blue.
Bekeart
Unless there is roughness or burrs I do not see any reason to polish.
I have found bent and/or twisted action bars that were dragging on very few well used 870s that came across my table.
Careful straightening and untwisting has always cured the problem for me.
If you have a well used 870 any area that "might" be in need of polishing will be apparent by missing blue.
Bekeart
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nachogrande
Member
THE OLD SAYING.
Play with it long enough & you will break it for sure. Please don't ask how I know it's true.
Play with it long enough & you will break it for sure. Please don't ask how I know it's true.
Taking off burrs or obvious rough spots is beneficial. Polishing is not particularly.
Draw you finger down edges of action bars. If they feel rough its
burr edges fron stamping. You don't have to polish the whole
surface of the bar and mess up the finish. Take a small hard stone and hold at a steep angle and remove burrs. Don't go back
and forth, make it one pass in one direction at a time. I have
worked on dozens of 870s and on the newer models this occurs
frequently. But it is the only glitch I have run into concerning the
action bars. Had one Express that failed to lock and when shot
( one shot) it tried to be a 1100. Sprung action bars and split
forend. I had a devil of a time trying to straighten action bars.
But that goes for any stamped part. You can't straighten them
by clamping them in a vice. They have enought spring to return
so as pressure is let off. It takes a little hammer work and that's
a PIA to do without peening metals & screwing up finish.
burr edges fron stamping. You don't have to polish the whole
surface of the bar and mess up the finish. Take a small hard stone and hold at a steep angle and remove burrs. Don't go back
and forth, make it one pass in one direction at a time. I have
worked on dozens of 870s and on the newer models this occurs
frequently. But it is the only glitch I have run into concerning the
action bars. Had one Express that failed to lock and when shot
( one shot) it tried to be a 1100. Sprung action bars and split
forend. I had a devil of a time trying to straighten action bars.
But that goes for any stamped part. You can't straighten them
by clamping them in a vice. They have enought spring to return
so as pressure is let off. It takes a little hammer work and that's
a PIA to do without peening metals & screwing up finish.
The 870 is a strong simple reliable design. In fact you might say it's
almost foolproof....almost.
almost foolproof....almost.
The 870 is not a bad gun, probably the best of stamped US made
shotguns. Virtually trouble free once broke in until they started
the race to cheapen them. Win & Ithaca couldn't compete with
the price of stamped guns or m12 and m37 would still be here.
The reason there is no more single barrels is they can't be made
and sold for much less than a stamped pump gun. Think about
that. The last US made singles were H&R/ NEF and they are crude compared to the singles of the 50s & 60s. The stamped
guns are like the AK-47s of shotguns. There is enough slop in
them to house a cat, so they will keep running when full of gunk.
They all have dual action bars to make up for bind they would
have with a single bar. Today Rem is running on the reputation of
the older Wingmasters, and that's wearing thin. Mossberg is
moving up to take a large share of pump market. Not because
they are getting any better, Rem is letting QC on 870s slip. A
stamped gun with synthetic stock is about the cheapest you can
go. The only human hands on, is assembly, there is no fitting on
these guns required.
shotguns. Virtually trouble free once broke in until they started
the race to cheapen them. Win & Ithaca couldn't compete with
the price of stamped guns or m12 and m37 would still be here.
The reason there is no more single barrels is they can't be made
and sold for much less than a stamped pump gun. Think about
that. The last US made singles were H&R/ NEF and they are crude compared to the singles of the 50s & 60s. The stamped
guns are like the AK-47s of shotguns. There is enough slop in
them to house a cat, so they will keep running when full of gunk.
They all have dual action bars to make up for bind they would
have with a single bar. Today Rem is running on the reputation of
the older Wingmasters, and that's wearing thin. Mossberg is
moving up to take a large share of pump market. Not because
they are getting any better, Rem is letting QC on 870s slip. A
stamped gun with synthetic stock is about the cheapest you can
go. The only human hands on, is assembly, there is no fitting on
these guns required.
ggibson511960
Member
Action Bars?
I've owned and shucked more than a few pump guns and never understood the focus on action bars as the source of gritty notchy movement. The smoothest pump gun I ever picked up is my Remington 31, renowned for its smoothness. It's a hybrid of stamped and milled parts and has the dreaded single action bar, guaranteed in Internet lore to bind and jam the gun. Mine never has. It almost pumps itself. What good would it do to polish and straighten stamped action bars and ignore internal channels in the receiver, and camming surfaces on the bolt carrier, bolt, barrel hood recess, disconnector, shell lifter, hammer, for-end liner, etc.? My old Winchester 97 was milled and polished throughout, but still shucked like a rusty car jack full of sand. Smoothness is largely designed into the 870, cleverly avoiding the necessity of milled parts.
I've owned and shucked more than a few pump guns and never understood the focus on action bars as the source of gritty notchy movement. The smoothest pump gun I ever picked up is my Remington 31, renowned for its smoothness. It's a hybrid of stamped and milled parts and has the dreaded single action bar, guaranteed in Internet lore to bind and jam the gun. Mine never has. It almost pumps itself. What good would it do to polish and straighten stamped action bars and ignore internal channels in the receiver, and camming surfaces on the bolt carrier, bolt, barrel hood recess, disconnector, shell lifter, hammer, for-end liner, etc.? My old Winchester 97 was milled and polished throughout, but still shucked like a rusty car jack full of sand. Smoothness is largely designed into the 870, cleverly avoiding the necessity of milled parts.
Rem 31 is a good shotgun, a 870 doesn't come close to it. I'm a
Win 12 guy but my old gunsmith was always wanting to argue that a Rem 31 was as good or better than a m12 Win. I have
seen a few milled guns with broken action bars. One has to wonder what kind of abuse it takes to break a milled action bar.
I don't think one could be broke from normal use no matter how
many rounds went through it. Some people could break a bowling
ball with a rubber hammer in a padded room.
Action bars aren't only part with burrs but the most noticeable.
I've seen express models with enough burr to cut your finger. If
I bought one I would strip it and debur everything that needed it.
Run your fingers inside the action, you will find a few burrs there
too.
Win 12 guy but my old gunsmith was always wanting to argue that a Rem 31 was as good or better than a m12 Win. I have
seen a few milled guns with broken action bars. One has to wonder what kind of abuse it takes to break a milled action bar.
I don't think one could be broke from normal use no matter how
many rounds went through it. Some people could break a bowling
ball with a rubber hammer in a padded room.
Action bars aren't only part with burrs but the most noticeable.
I've seen express models with enough burr to cut your finger. If
I bought one I would strip it and debur everything that needed it.
Run your fingers inside the action, you will find a few burrs there
too.
I think it's the fact that the bar(s) are readily accessible, you see the parts moving back and forth,,so it makes people feel like they can improve things by working them over.
No doubt some improvement can be gained,,any small amt of reduced friction or resistance helps.
But the majority of any roughness or hard operational effort felt is within the trigger guard mechanism, hammer & carrier and it's springs unless something is out of wack to begin with.
Take that 870 and TD it.
Remove the bolt & the bolt slide from the action slide and slip the forend assembly back onto the gun. Try the pump action again and see how it feels now.
Works pretty easy w/o the bolt & bolt slide linking up with the hammer and working the carrier, disconnector, springs, ect in the trigger group.
There is much more to the resistance and feel, or lack of feel of a smooth action than those action bars.
The 31 is just smoother to operate because of the design of the carrier (2 narrow rails for the bolt to slide on) and the way the bolt tips it up for feeding.
It's similar to the Rem 17 and the Ithaca 37 style carriers,,both known for slick actions.
The Mossberg 500 copied it to an extent also.
Twin action bars,,,, nice I guess but if the gun is designed and built right they aren't necessary. Plenty of well known pump guns have been around for a century+/- with out 2 of them and still work just fine.
I'd say the only one I've ever had & noticed the pump action bar 'bind' on any of the dozens of pump shotguns I've owned is a Marlin Model 43 (hammerless pump 12g),,and I've owned some obscure ones at that.
That was due to a combination of extreme wear (1920's Trap Gun) and as I saw it a bit of poor design. I fixed both and neither 'fix' shows on the final restoration/upgrade. Still a nice shooter.
Some have a better design as to how the action bar is attached to the pump handle metal, that's for sure. Some are just crimped together, others brazed, some use screws, some are spot welded.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Elmer Keith said in, Shotguns that the then new M-870 was so slick that it operated like the finest hand stoned M-12 or Ithaca M-37. High praise for the new Remington.
The present Express grade has some cheaper parts, not just rougher finishing. Present Remington QC leaves a lot to be desired. Older Wingmaster guns that have been used a bit are usually very smooth.
My Wingmaster dates from about 2004, and has what looks like real engraving on the receiver, with nice wood. I think they made that version for just a year or three.
But, for all I know, it may still be in production. I haven't seen a M-870 in any but Express grade in a store in a long time. And many of those have synthetic stocks.
A dealer told me that the public doesn't want to pay more for the nicer guns.
The present Express grade has some cheaper parts, not just rougher finishing. Present Remington QC leaves a lot to be desired. Older Wingmaster guns that have been used a bit are usually very smooth.
My Wingmaster dates from about 2004, and has what looks like real engraving on the receiver, with nice wood. I think they made that version for just a year or three.
But, for all I know, it may still be in production. I haven't seen a M-870 in any but Express grade in a store in a long time. And many of those have synthetic stocks.
A dealer told me that the public doesn't want to pay more for the nicer guns.
An old Olympic shotgun shooter told me to put valve grinding compound in the 870 and rack the slide a thousand times or more than clean it out. Action was so slick after that, that I could rack it with just one hand. Make sure you clean out all the compound.
Farmer17
Member
I've researched the net on how to slick up and 870 and I always get the same answer "just shoot it a lot". Well, I don't know how much shooting and how many years of it they are talking about but I would like results a little sooner than that. I had a good friend who was a high level competitive shooter and traveled all over the country going to IPSC matches. He was a pretty good gunsmith also as far as slicking up an action on a Smith revolver or tweaking his competition guns and he could slick up the action on an 870 where it felt like greased ball bearings but I don't know how he did it and he moved away and I haven't seen him in years.
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People don't want to pay more for nice guns. TS is right, a lot of
the gun buying public aren't old enough to have had experience
with "nice guns". For years now the SD & para military guns have
been keeping Gun Companies afloat. I notice that families that
have been hunting and shooting for generations are the ones
who seek classic type guns. The new generation wants the action
movie and video game guns. That's were the market is at and the
companies will continue cutting corners as long as the can sell them. What makes it worse is besides cutting corners, the amount of these guns that have issues right out of the box. The
QC has gone to pot.
the gun buying public aren't old enough to have had experience
with "nice guns". For years now the SD & para military guns have
been keeping Gun Companies afloat. I notice that families that
have been hunting and shooting for generations are the ones
who seek classic type guns. The new generation wants the action
movie and video game guns. That's were the market is at and the
companies will continue cutting corners as long as the can sell them. What makes it worse is besides cutting corners, the amount of these guns that have issues right out of the box. The
QC has gone to pot.
Old Corp
Member
Grew up shooting an 870 Wingmaster gotten new in the early 70's. Shot it hard for 20 years and it got butter-smooth.
Recall reading an article way back where someone dis-assembled their 870, ID'ed all the sliding and interactive parts (ie, action bars), de-greased and applied fine valve grinding compound. Re-assembled with compound in place.
An hour or two watching TV and working the action many, many times.
Then, dis-assemble, clean off compound and lightly/normally lube.
Supposedly worked very well.
Recall reading an article way back where someone dis-assembled their 870, ID'ed all the sliding and interactive parts (ie, action bars), de-greased and applied fine valve grinding compound. Re-assembled with compound in place.
An hour or two watching TV and working the action many, many times.
Then, dis-assemble, clean off compound and lightly/normally lube.
Supposedly worked very well.
CustomChevyGuy
Member
I've had my 870 express tactical for a couple of years. I couldn't begin to guess how many cases have been run thru it. I bought it to run and never intended to maintain any round count. I don't know if the action could be much smoother. I've never felt the grit/binding others have always associated with their express. If I did I'd probably be sitting here racking the slide repeatedly while I drift between the games and Netflix.
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