Possibly defective M&P 9c?

[dmcollect41]

I found this forum through chasing down Apex trigger upgrades for M&P's, thinking one might help. Happy to be here and looking forward to the meaningful exchanges around shared interests.

I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone who has had a similar experience to mine and what solution you pursued. I bought a "like new" (absolutely everything, case, mags, IM, lock, etc) M&P 9c v1.0, 3.6 barrel. I took it and a brand new M&P FPC to the range for 1st firing. I zeroed the FPC quickly on iron sights and red/green dot. In under 40 minutes I was driving tacks with it, either way.

I was thrilled. Then I moved to the 9c and was unpleasantly stunned. Firing from 45 ft (same distance as the FPC), it didn't even get on paper. I was shooting with a friend who was spotting for me. Moved in to 30 ft, got on paper, (most times), and there was no grouping, no consistency at all, it was all over the place. That tells me, "it's not the sights being poorly adjusted, must be me. It's so new (even used), it's not broken in." So I have my friend try it with the same awful outcome.

For context, we were firing 6 other handguns and 2 pistol caliber rifles besides the M&P 9c ranging from .22, 9mm (3), .38, .45, and not missing (the whole target), either one of us, paper or steel (it was a nice fun day, we basically had the range to ourselves, and I had zeroed the other PCR as well).

I viewed many reviews and shooting videos of both the FPC and the 9c on YouTube before making that "double" purchase. I love the fact that they are basically the same gun and the magazines from 17 to 23 are interchangeable (and bought multiple extras, I don't mind the spacers). The (3) 12's that came with the 9c would be great for carry.

I'm not bashing the 9c, I'm confused. I want to love the thing, but can't if it won't shoot straight. I hope to know what's wrong with it and fix it (without spending a lot of $ chasing it). If there were groupings on paper, I would understand exactly what needed to be done.

Has anyone else had this problem? What, if anything, could the first owner have screwed up? (though the pistol didn't even have wear on the slide rails). If the first owner never even fired this gun (no wear, seems logical), what might S&W have screwed up in assembly or manufacturing (hey, rejects happen).

I just want a pistol that shoots straight. I'm no marksman but I am used to point, shoot, hit - especially at close range.

Has anyone ever approached S&W with an apparently used and defective pistol?

 

[JohnRoc65]

Here is probably the answer to your problem.

Sorry, but it's expensive and you'll need a 2.0 sub-compact RSA to go with it because the 2.0 has a 3.6" barrel instead of the 1.0 3.5" barrel.

The 3.6" Apex threaded barrel. It works in both the 1.0 and 2.0 sub- compacts.

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

There is an inherent timing problem with the way the barrel unlocks in M&P 1.0 9mm pistols. It can cause varying degrees of inaccuracy from one pistol to another.

My own 9c was not nearly as bad as what you've described, but I still bought the Apex barrel to try for improved accuracy.

The difference on my first range trip was stunning. My groups literally shrunk by 50%.

I don't know if your gun has other problems that need to be addressed, but in my case the Apex barrel turned a decently accurate gun into something akin to a target pistol.

Good luck to you and welcome to the forum. Hope you can get your issues resolved.

 

[Saudade]

Did you get the original box with it? If so, there's a date code on it that may help. S&W made a few "rolling changes" throughout the M&P 1.0 production including twist rate. Did you get the extra palm swells? You might try a different size.

What weight bullets did you shoot? 115gr? Higher?

All M&Ps use a "combat hold" sight picture so you cover the target with the front sight dot. At 45ft, it would still cover a good part of the target. Also the short sight radius can make it challenging to hold steady on a distant target.

The 1.0 triggers were not the best. Gritty, stagey, lot's of creep and virtually no reset. The hinge trigger provides it's own challenge with finger placement. S&W made significant changes to the trigger in the 2.0 release and finally ditched the hinged trigger.

Not to say any of these are the root of your problem.

I'd suggest you try shooting at a closer target, maybe 5 yards if you can to verify it can hit the paper consistently. Then back off to 10, then to 15. This will give you some time to adjust to the trigger.

I have a 1.0 Compact (and a 1.0 fullsize and Shield) I bought new in 2013. Has around 1500 rounds through it (I don't carry it). At 10 yards, with 124 gr FMJ, I can put my shots inside a 6" target with an occasional flyer or two when I'm "fresh".

I also bring multiple handguns to the range when I go. Sometimes, the order I shoot them in affects my accuracy and precision late in the session. Say I go from my 1911 to my Beretta, to my Sig, to a revolver, (all DA/SA) and then a striker pistol, it takes a bit of adjusting to the very different trigger. Doesn't matter if it's my M&P(s), my 320 or my PPQ. Also, it doesn't matter what I shoot after a few hundred rounds, I get sloppy.

Having said all that, what Johnroc65 said is true. Lot's of folks ditch the trigger and go Apex (or another brand). I put a 2.0 trigger in mine. Still has the hinge but otherwise a great improvement.

So don't loose faith. Wait another session or two.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I must be fortunate: my M&P 40 Compact (1.0) shoots accurately with the factory 40 S&W barrel, the 40 to 9mm Storm Lake and the KKM 357 SIG barrels...

Something just doesn't seem right about the OP's situation...?

Cheers!

P.S. A regular 9mm barrel in a 40 S&W slide might exhibit those characteristics as well...

 

[LVSteve]

Date of manufacture and the ammo type would be useful to know. I take it you checked that the sights are solid. I seem to recall that there are dimples on the underside of the barrel or slide (maybe both?) that indicate engineering changes. How is your gun marked?

I would say that I am not convinced that the timing issue afflicts all 1.0 M&P pistols. I do not recall my LE trade fullsize behaving like a shotgun, and my 5" gun definitely shoots well. Could it shoot better with an APEX barrel? Maybe, but then there is the question of whe

 

[murphydog]

It sounds as though it might be caused by inconsistent lockup of the action into battery.

S & W should still have the parts for it; I'd send it back and see what they can do.

 

[dmcollect41]

Thank you, everyone for the helpful information. I've been buried up to my eyeballs trying to close out work for the year. I will go back through the threads and see if I can offer answers to all questions in my next reply. I did get the box with it, palm swells, chamber indicator, everything. I figured it looked so new that no one ever warranty registered it, so I did that as well - and that worked.

 

[dmcollect41]

Thanks again, everyone. I am going to answer top to bottom and reference all the advice, comments, questions:

@JohnRoc65: If I decide to go the Apex route, this is helpful. Thanks.

@Saudade: I did get the box and everything. Can you discern a date code from this label? (attached)

I have the Palm swells and was shooting the L. I went through them all before going to the range but did not trade them out while shooting. Going back through them, the M feels better and I will try that next time.

I shot 115 GR FMJ Brass made in Bosnia and Herzegovina (it seems using full product names gets you branded with a warning?). I put 70-80 rounds through the FPC and 110 through the 9c. I was not aware the 9c was Combat Hold sighted. I was using Center Hold. Still, I should have got a low group. There were no misfires or misfeeds and I shot 12, 17, 23 mags through the 9C. Your trigger description is a bullseye.

I do need another session or two. I was just stunned with how bad the first one was. It was a casual, fun, range day. Even so, we were right on top of everything we shot at, other than with the 9c. We did keep going back to it, so there was a lot of straight-shooting in between its firing time. I started the session by shooting it two handed with the magazine against the table to have the most stable platform. I shot it one handed and two handed free of the table. The 6 yards we were shooting is not that different than 5 and I totally get your point, get it consistently on paper. I may need to start at 2 yards to see what it is really doing. Do you think 125 GR might help in the next session?

@StorminNorman: I did check every aspect of the gun and it all matches the 9c designation (lower, slide, and barrel). I almost wish it had been the wrong barrel in the frame. That would have been a simple fix.

@LVSteve: The sights are solidly mounted with no play, but it's a great point. I had not checked them ahead of that range session. I couldn't even approach checking zero, so I never loosened or drifted anything.

As for the barrel and slide dots, there is stuff to be seen (attached). The slide has 3 distinct large and distinct "dots" drilled in. The barrel has one tiny dot that looks like a proof punch mark (it is the white dot you see in the close up).

And yes, "behaving like a shotgun" is exactly how it felt. I fired a 125 years .25 Colt pocket automatic pocket with a totally shot-out barrel once and it felt like that - couldn't hit the broad side of anything.

@murpheydog: I am considering sending it back to S&W. It's one of the reasons I registered it under warranty. Has anyone successfully done this before? Unfortunately, I've read a few accounts where months were spent sending a piece back and forth with S&W and a successful conclusion was not achieved. Is there a collective opinion on whether to approach S&W under warranty? Or should I consider a Performance Center approach?

I feel like whoever bought this pistol the first time went directly to the range and came straight back to the gunshop and walked away with something else. I really don't want to expensively replace half the pistol just to have it do what it is supposed to do out of the box. I really don't want to trade it in against another S&W and make it someone else's problem. And I really don't want to trade platforms. My affinity for the FPC and the interchangeable mags with the 9c is exactly what I am looking for.

 

[dmcollect41]

Hmm... I spent an hour today replying to everything and "thought" I posted it. I came back to check and it did not post. It had photos also. Is there a "drafts" location perhaps?

 

[Saudade]

Yeah, the 3 (year) 031 (day in Julian) is the date code. Looks like Jan 31, 2013.

SW made a change from the 4 digit code to 6 digit (mmddyy) sometime during the 2013 year. My fullsize has a 4 digit date (Apr 2013) but my 9C has the 6 digits (Oct, 2013).