My wife finally wants to try it! I have some 158gr SWC's and Unique on hand. Anyone have any experience with really light loads with this combination. Will shoot in a 2 1/2" Model 19 and snubbie J frames. The manual says start is 3.9 gr but I would like to start even lighter??
Powder puff loads - 38 Spl
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Are they lead or jacketed?
You could have a problem with a lite loads & jacketed bullets.
You could have a problem with a lite loads & jacketed bullets.
retired_diver
Member
My manual speer #12 says 38 special 158gr L-SWC start at 4.3 unique 853fps. I have shot these and it already felt light, so where you want to start should be what you want.
Lee's Modern Reloading 2nd Edition has lead 158 grain over 3.1 grains HP38 @782 feet per second as a starting load. I have used this to good effect in a Model 642 snub. It also lists W231.
photobiker
Member
I have loaded as low as 4.1 but my best results were at 4.3. I'm using a S&W with a 6" barrel. 4.3 gr. gives me 1-1/2" groups at 10 yds and 4.1 gr opens up to 2". The Alliant page calls for 4.7 gr of powder as a starting point. You might want to try 3.9 but carry a wooden dowel just in case. Any thing less than that might hit the ground before it gets to the target.
Unique is not a good powder for very light loads. It is too slow burning
and works for medium to full power loads in the 38 spl for those who
like it, I personally don't like it. If you think you might be loading a lot
of light loads it would be worth the money to buy a can of faster
burning powder like Bullseye or several others. With some of the fast
burning powders you could drop down to 3.0 grs or even slightly less
without any worry about sticking a bullet. Makes for economical loads
as a bonus.
and works for medium to full power loads in the 38 spl for those who
like it, I personally don't like it. If you think you might be loading a lot
of light loads it would be worth the money to buy a can of faster
burning powder like Bullseye or several others. With some of the fast
burning powders you could drop down to 3.0 grs or even slightly less
without any worry about sticking a bullet. Makes for economical loads
as a bonus.
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Load some 148 grain wadcutters to 750 fps. That should do the trick.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I agree with the above, Unique isn't a good choice for light loads. It's very dirty at low pressures and inconsistent. I like W231 much better for a wide range of .38 Special loads. If you want to stick with Alliant powders I suggest Bullseye instead of Unique.
My old Speer manual
My Speer manual says 4.0 grains Unique for 158 grain LSWC. I had a 2" model 10 and experimented with some sub-minimum loads but it was 30 years ago, times and caveats were different and I don't have any sure fire data now. I believe, however, that having a forgiving short barrel combined with the forgiving .38 cartridge kept me out of trouble. Light .38 loads are going to feel like nothing in the model 19. Try a couple yourself with the J frame to see how they feel before the wife takes over. Unless she is skittish, I bet she'll have no trouble at all.
My Speer manual says 4.0 grains Unique for 158 grain LSWC. I had a 2" model 10 and experimented with some sub-minimum loads but it was 30 years ago, times and caveats were different and I don't have any sure fire data now. I believe, however, that having a forgiving short barrel combined with the forgiving .38 cartridge kept me out of trouble. Light .38 loads are going to feel like nothing in the model 19. Try a couple yourself with the J frame to see how they feel before the wife takes over. Unless she is skittish, I bet she'll have no trouble at all.
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Cdog
Member
For any, I can't recommend lower than published minimum any more than I would recommend going above published max.
Another powder is where I'd start. Standard Clays, Trail Boss or the above mentioned Bullseye may be more suitable for your application.
Peak mentioned W231 and HP38. For what it's worth, these two are the same powders with different labels.
Another powder is where I'd start. Standard Clays, Trail Boss or the above mentioned Bullseye may be more suitable for your application.
Peak mentioned W231 and HP38. For what it's worth, these two are the same powders with different labels.
Many powders like unique, 231, etc get dirty and smokey with reduced loads.
I have recently started loading with VV N320. Works great with wadcutters and 125 fn.
A mild .38 is easy to handle. Most of recoil is perceived in noise. You might consider trying doubling up on the hearing protection.
I have recently started loading with VV N320. Works great with wadcutters and 125 fn.
A mild .38 is easy to handle. Most of recoil is perceived in noise. You might consider trying doubling up on the hearing protection.
Maximumbob54
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I've used Hodgdon's .38 long colt data with HP38 at the starting load of 2.6gr for a 150gr bullet but I used 158gr bullets. It sounded like a loud cap gun and had nearly nill recoil. This was with Lee round nose tumble lube bullets. It was fun and it helped for an afternoon of double action to show I was getting recoil shy a bit and this helped show it big time. I'm not sure how much lighter of a load you could go with and not end up with a bullet still in the bore. I made sure to watch the targets for bullet impact each shot and there wasn't a problem but they did seem almost too light in recoil. This was from a M19-5 with a 4" barrel.
scooter123
Member
Better look at that again, you have the data for HP38 mixed up with the line below it for Unique.
Lee's tends to have starting loads a bit on the "warm" side if you are looking for a real powder puff. For example the correct data for Unique with a 158 grain lead bullet is a starting point of 4.1 grains at 727 fps. Max load listed is 4.7 grains at 815 fps.
When hunting for powder puff loads IMO the best place to turn is the Lyman manual. Here there are 2 choices that can give some guidance for a powder puff. BTW, Lyman uses a Universal Receiver for testing and I don't see any notes about venting, which probably explains the higher velocities that those listed in the Lee Manual.
For a 158 grain linotype Flat Point bullet the starting point is 4.0 grains of Unique and a velocity of 791 fps. Pressure for this is listed at 13,100 CUP. Max load for the 158 grain bullet is 4.5 grains at 871 fps and 16,000 CUP. Length is set at 1.445 inch.
For a very slightly lighter 155 grain linotype Semi Wadcutter bullet the starting point is very much into powder puff territory at 3.4 grains for 601 fps at 8,900 CUP. Max listed for this bullet is 5.1 grains for 895 fps and 16,100 CUP. Length is set at 1.460 inch.
So, here we have data for 3 combinations using Unique with results that are somewhat conflicting. What it points out is that any Reloading Data we see should be considered as only a GUIDE and that we personally are responsible for developing a safe load that does what we want it to. It also illustrates that a Chronograph should be considered essential for anyone thinking about working up maximum velocity loads in any caliber.
Good news is you're looking for reduced recoil loads so the only real safety concern would be to produce a squib load. Since you are using a lead bullet it's also another plus in your favor because you won't see the wider variance between Static and Dynamic Friction exhibited by copper jacketed bullets. This means you have a bit more margin for error using loads below the listed starting point.
Personally, I'd start with a 3.4 grain load of Unique using that 1.460 inch overall length if that puts the cannelure in the right spot. Then I would take 20 rounds out and try them out while paying attention to my target and the sound for each shot. First, you want to see a hit on target each time you pull the trigger, it means you didn't squib the bullet. Second, you'll want to see nice round holes, if you start seeing keyholes you'll need to increase the velocity a bit. Third, you'll want to observe how it feels. The fact is that if bullet and barrel are a good match in terms of diameters you can work down to some really soft shooting loads before you start seeing keyholing. If you have access to a Chronograph, I would suggest working your loads to 550-600 fps velocity and see how your wife likes shooting them.
Final notes. Unique gets pretty dirty when you load it to reduced pressures. Right now you'll just have to accept that it's a price you'll have to pay for loading soft. Unique is also a rather poor metering powder so I STRONGLY suggest that you hand weigh each charge and line your casings up for a final peak at the charged casings before stuffing in the bullets. This means you don't want to even think about doing this on a progressive. If you do load on a progressive this light using Unique I can almost guarantee that you'll load a squib or near squib.
parabarbarian
Member
For powder puff loads I use either Trail Boss or Bullseye. As others have pointed out, Unique is not a good powder at low load density. The lightest load I ever tried was 4.0 gr under a 158 gr SWC. That generated about 760 fps from a 3" bbl.
The only problem I see with light loads is the chance of sticking one in the tube and shooting another after it.
That would not damage you, but would screw up your barrel.
I use a 92 gran RN and 3 grs of bulleye. Lyman mould number 358242, they made it in 92 and 121 grains. They have since changed it to 356242.
I trim all cases to the same length to get the same crimp.
I train new shooters with mine, but am there in case of a squib.
I only let them shoot paper out to 15 feet. They need to see where their shot hit the paper
Good luck
That would not damage you, but would screw up your barrel.
I use a 92 gran RN and 3 grs of bulleye. Lyman mould number 358242, they made it in 92 and 121 grains. They have since changed it to 356242.
I trim all cases to the same length to get the same crimp.
I train new shooters with mine, but am there in case of a squib.
I only let them shoot paper out to 15 feet. They need to see where their shot hit the paper
Good luck
Sometimes you gotta "Run what you brung". Unique being all you have don't go too much below starting loads listed in your manual. Inconsistent ignition and "dirty" burn for light loads of Unique, plus you may get a bullet stuck in your barrel...
Of course there's better powders for the job, like Trailboss, W231, and Bullseye to name a few, but if you're limited to Unique, load carefully.
Of course there's better powders for the job, like Trailboss, W231, and Bullseye to name a few, but if you're limited to Unique, load carefully.
novalty
Member
Haven't tried Unique, but my wife like shooting my Ruger SP101 (2.25") using 38 Specials with 4.0 gr. of W231 behind 158 JSP. I will have to scour my manuals as I think one of them listed 38 loads for snubbies.
MichiganScott
Member
Read the Alliant page again. The 4.7gr load is the top regular pressure load for Unique and the starting +P load in the older hard manuals.
I've also found that 4.3gr is an accurate light load with Unique, except it leaves a lot of ash in the barrel. It never bothered me because it needs to be cleaned with any powder.
The nice thing about Unique is that you can use it for both light loads and full bore loads, even if it's not the best choice for either.
