Powders That Give Fireballs with .357Mag and Those That Do Not?

[NiklasP]

Hello!

Many posters have noted large fireballs from some .357 Mag and 38 Special +P loads (as well as other loads for other calibers) but not from others. Some ammo makers tout low muzzle flash from their loads, generally for home defence revolver ammo. I understand that in part this is determined by powder burn rates, with slow burning powders giving lots of muzzle flash and blast, especially in heavy loads and with short barrels. Fast burning powders and longer barrels seem to give less muzzle flash and blast. I also read of additives to powder that reduce muzzle flash.

It seems fireballs and ear-splitting blasts are produced by unburned powder, as it enters O2-rich air. This suggests that it is not simply a matter of powder type but, rather, heavily dependent on how completely powder is burned in barrel. Sonic boom, for higher velocity loads, is an obvious component of muzzle blast -- but, is it a large or small component?

Is it as simple as some canister powders (say H110, 2400, ??) can be counted on to give fireballs and ear damaging muzzle blasts and others (say Red Dot, Bullseye, 231, Unique, ???) consistantly do not?

SO, what can a garden-variety handloader do to produce good loads with minimal fireworks?

Some folks have posted a few data for sound pressures and others have reported photographing muzzle fireworks. Should be quite educational if some of those data could be posted.

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[NiklasP]

Hello!

Many posters have noted large fireballs from some .357 Mag and 38 Special +P loads (as well as other loads for other calibers) but not from others. Some ammo makers tout low muzzle flash from their loads, generally for home defence revolver ammo. I understand that in part this is determined by powder burn rates, with slow burning powders giving lots of muzzle flash and blast, especially in heavy loads and with short barrels. Fast burning powders and longer barrels seem to give less muzzle flash and blast. I also read of additives to powder that reduce muzzle flash.

It seems fireballs and ear-splitting blasts are produced by unburned powder, as it enters O2-rich air. This suggests that it is not simply a matter of powder type but, rather, heavily dependent on how completely powder is burned in barrel. Sonic boom, for higher velocity loads, is an obvious component of muzzle blast -- but, is it a large or small component?

Is it as simple as some canister powders (say H110, 2400, ??) can be counted on to give fireballs and ear damaging muzzle blasts and others (say Red Dot, Bullseye, 231, Unique, ???) consistantly do not?

SO, what can a garden-variety handloader do to produce good loads with minimal fireworks?

Some folks have posted a few data for sound pressures and others have reported photographing muzzle fireworks. Should be quite educational if some of those data could be posted.

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[mkk41]

In general , powders with a slow burn rate (H-110 , W-296 , 2400 , Acc#9) combined with a short barrel will give the bigger fireball as much of the charge is burning as it gets blown out of the barrel.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

All of those are good. I also like Blue Dot for big bang, much flash in short barrels!!

Well, unless you don't want that. But it sure is fun to have a few handy when some guy beside you at the indoor range thinks he's hot stuff with his 9emmemm crunchenticker!

 

[jrplourde]

you at the indoor range thinks he's hot stuff with his 9emmemm crunchenticker!

I like that. That'll show em.
bob

 

[H Richard]

I just worked up a "short barrel" 357 load for a 2 1/2" mod 19. 10.5 gr A#5 with a 140 gr Sierra JHP. A#5 is roughly half way burn rate between 231 and 296/H110. Burns a lot cleaner than 231, and doesn't have the muzzle blast of the slower powders. Book lists it as a 1200 fps load, but from the short tube I got 1125.

 

[NiklasP]

VAdoublegunner,

Do you have any information about barrel lenght and/or load at which Blue Dot ceases to make big fireballs? Recently I shot my first 38 Sp+P loads with Blue Dot (6,5 grains under 158 grain Speer SWC HP) and it is a mild load. Was midday so no fireball seen. Will be increasing this load until I get either leading problems or too much recoil for extensive shooting in a light revolver (30 oz) with 5 inch barrel. Presume that might be 8,0 grains Blue Dot or so.

Thanks,
Niklas

 

[runningute]

I have bought and experimented with several powders since I also mainly shoot a Mod. 66 2.5" .357 mag.
Power Pistol- the most accurate powder, measures nicely, HUGE fireball and report.

Unique-Dirty, smoky, mild-mannered powder. Does not measure as nicely as a ball powder.

Win 231/ HP-38- The best of the bunch...medium recoil, accurate, low report and the least "flashy" in a darkened indoor range.

I have also tried 2400, Bullseye, BlueDot, RedDot and will always go back to HP-38. If you don't like people shooting next to you at the range, try some Power Pistol!

 

[Paul5388]

I think you'll find much of the flash is associated with the nitroglycerin content of double based powders.

While there aren't too many single based pistol powders, there are some. The only two double based IMR pistol powders I know of are 700X and 800X. I believe Accurate's Solo 1000 and Solo 1250 are also single based.

 

[2152hq]

Don't try this at home.

.
The most impressive fireball loads I ever saw were some handloads a co-worker (Sheriffs Dept!)once made up for his...M37 3" 38Special J frame revolver.

They consisted of 2.5gr Bullseye and the rest of the case filled with the powder from a road flare.

He loaded this under 158gr SWCGC bullets and got about 4 rounds off before the gun shut down for good. Impressive fireball loads!,,and flame cutting was too. What they did to that aluminum frame was criminal.

Then he tried to get S&W to replace his 'defective' revolver. Even they didn't go for that one

Thinking back,,,I hope he properly disposed of any other loaded rounds he had made up..

 

[John R]

If you like big fire balls, Blue Dot is your friend.

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Originally posted by NiklasP:
VAdoublegunner,

Do you have any information about barrel lenght and/or load at which Blue Dot ceases to make big fireballs?

Hello Niklas,
I really couldn't say. I like Blue Dot for a several magnum loads, and also some of those "fun" loads just for the purpose of creating a big flash/bang, but I don't really know of a good tuned load for it. Longer barrels seems to help reduce the effect. It sounds like you may have found a good combination with your 38SP+P load.

 

[NiklasP]

Thanks VAdoublegunner! Blue Dot load I have started on is louder than a Green Dot load I started with, but much more powder and at least 200 fps faster. Will continue and also look for chance to shoot some in late evening. There are times I would like a nice big fireball and bang, but, mostly a quieter load is what I am looking for. Green and Blue Dot powder I use lots of, so always have on hand.

Give information in runningute's post, likely that sooner or later I will try W231.

Niklas

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
If you do not want a big flame usually
so with AA powers .