Rev. Vince
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Pre-War M&P .38 Special - Mfg?
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I would guess early 30's. A number about 60k earlier than yours estimated 1931 in another thread.
Edit: OK, I want to change my guess to 1940 or 1946.
Edit: OK, I want to change my guess to 1940 or 1946.
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Rev. Vince
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Thank you. I didn't mention, but it is taken for granted this is a five-screw frame.
This revolver was previously owned by a local police officer in the Portland, Oregon area.
I doesn't look like much, but it is close to mechanically perfect with smooth DA/SA trigger pull and little or no stacking that I can feel. Cylinder and barrel appear to have been fired very little. rifling is, as new. The usual S&W lock-up. Cylinder functions, as new. Fit all around the frame and yoke is perfect. I'm sure it was well cared for. I love the less aggressive semi-smooth hammer. Over-priced, though: $695. Internally like new. Externally, been around-the-block many times. Carried a lot and shot seldom.
This revolver was previously owned by a local police officer in the Portland, Oregon area.
I doesn't look like much, but it is close to mechanically perfect with smooth DA/SA trigger pull and little or no stacking that I can feel. Cylinder and barrel appear to have been fired very little. rifling is, as new. The usual S&W lock-up. Cylinder functions, as new. Fit all around the frame and yoke is perfect. I'm sure it was well cared for. I love the less aggressive semi-smooth hammer. Over-priced, though: $695. Internally like new. Externally, been around-the-block many times. Carried a lot and shot seldom.
Based on your photos and mechanical description I don't see the
"over-priced" part.
I'd sure like to find one like that for that money.
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Rev. Vince
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Holy cow! For once in my gun-buying experience, I didn't over-pay for a gun? This LGS usually over charges and I just pay! Thank you for that reassuring post.
Closer to 1940? That sounds about right because my research indicated S&W stopped at s/n 700,000 just before WWII
Closer to 1940? That sounds about right because my research indicated S&W stopped at s/n 700,000 just before WWII
The fact its a round butt gun greatly adds for collectors.
Congrats for finding a cool variation.
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It is a fairly scarce variation as a pre-war 2" .38 M & P, presuming it has all matching serial numbers (frame, rear cylinder face, barrel flat).
No more than a few hundred were made and more than a few were not shipped/sold until after the war. This one definitely merits a letter of authenticity:
Letter Process - Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation
No more than a few hundred were made and more than a few were not shipped/sold until after the war. This one definitely merits a letter of authenticity:
Letter Process - Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation
How about those grips? They are so period post war. I have seen that medallion before, but cant place it. Any help. In an old Stoeger catalog?
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Rev. Vince
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Yes! All three serial number match.
Around mid-1940, the US was preparing for WW2. For not-yet-completely understood reasons, 2-inch round-butt 38 Special M&P revolvers were not available to the public: they were all going to the Military, or Law Enforcement Organizations. This restriction was in place until about mid-1946.
The are several known serial-number ranges for this restriction. The earliest one is 692308 - 692457. Your revolver is serial number 692456, so it would have been shipped in August or September of 1946. These delayed-shipped revolvers all seem to have pre-WW2 parts, and are possibly or probably assembled in 1940, but the shipping records show a ship date of 1946.
In mid-1940, Smith& Wesson was only accepting back-orders for these special guns. In effect the guns were being pre-sold. They were shipped and invoiced after the ban was lifted, in about Sept 1946.
Your question is about the manufacturing date of the revolver. That information is not available for Smith & Wesson's, because the manufacturing records were all destroyed. Shipping date is the number that is available, and is used as the relevant date by BATF.
I own 694101, 694105, and 694106, and they fall in another known range of 694033 to 694141. They meet the definition of pre-WW2 guns shipped in Sept 1946. I've written two articles about these guns for the Smith & Wesson Collector Association Journal, available to members of S&WCA.
Regards, Mike Priwer
The are several known serial-number ranges for this restriction. The earliest one is 692308 - 692457. Your revolver is serial number 692456, so it would have been shipped in August or September of 1946. These delayed-shipped revolvers all seem to have pre-WW2 parts, and are possibly or probably assembled in 1940, but the shipping records show a ship date of 1946.
In mid-1940, Smith& Wesson was only accepting back-orders for these special guns. In effect the guns were being pre-sold. They were shipped and invoiced after the ban was lifted, in about Sept 1946.
Your question is about the manufacturing date of the revolver. That information is not available for Smith & Wesson's, because the manufacturing records were all destroyed. Shipping date is the number that is available, and is used as the relevant date by BATF.
I own 694101, 694105, and 694106, and they fall in another known range of 694033 to 694141. They meet the definition of pre-WW2 guns shipped in Sept 1946. I've written two articles about these guns for the Smith & Wesson Collector Association Journal, available to members of S&WCA.
Regards, Mike Priwer
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Rev. Vince
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Thank you, Gentlemen.
This is most interesting. I thought I was buying a "shooter" and instead have a collectable!
I did indeed request a Letter of Authenticity from Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation.
Now, the pregnant question will be: How much is this revolver worth?
This is most interesting. I thought I was buying a "shooter" and instead have a collectable!
I did indeed request a Letter of Authenticity from Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation.
Now, the pregnant question will be: How much is this revolver worth?
I believe that the stock on your gun are "jigged bone". I have seen that medallion on several sets of similar grips seen on mid 1930s guns. Jigged bone grips were an inexpensive alternative to stag grips. Wolf & Klar the large Ft. Worth, Texas distributor/retailder sold many, many sets of thos although most of theirs had no medallions. I do no know where those cartridge head inspired medallions came from or who originated them. I also have jigged bone grps with faceted glass (zirconian shaped) medallions. That is a great gun you found!
Welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing.
I'm like you "I just pay!" BUT THIS TIME, you're the Seller (smile) so,, this time you can set the price!!! And you will probably sell it very quickly with a S&W letter if that's what you want to do.
My bell got rung with the Stoeger mention...The medallion design is mindful of one associated with Stoeger...
...BenAs to how much the gun is worth, about 4-5 years ago, they sold for $1000 to $1200. One of mine, 694106, went to the Boston PD, in about June of 1940, so it was exempt from the ban. If yours went to an exempt entity, then it would have shipped in 1940.
Besides the 6-year late shipment, there is another potentially interesting facet to these guns. Camp Ritchie, now known as Camp David, was being used for covert-activity training, under the guidance of Col. Rex Applegate. Some of the guns may have been shipped there. Ft Mason, in San Francisco, was also thought to be a similar training center. The production of round-butt .38 M&P stopped once the US became involved in WW2: only square-butt revolvers were being produced for the Military. I have a 2" Victory M&P shipped to Ft Mason in either 1941 or 1942, and it was part of a larger shipment. Possibly the special OPs training was still going on there.
Indeed, they are collectible!
Regards, Mike Priwer
Besides the 6-year late shipment, there is another potentially interesting facet to these guns. Camp Ritchie, now known as Camp David, was being used for covert-activity training, under the guidance of Col. Rex Applegate. Some of the guns may have been shipped there. Ft Mason, in San Francisco, was also thought to be a similar training center. The production of round-butt .38 M&P stopped once the US became involved in WW2: only square-butt revolvers were being produced for the Military. I have a 2" Victory M&P shipped to Ft Mason in either 1941 or 1942, and it was part of a larger shipment. Possibly the special OPs training was still going on there.
Indeed, they are collectible!
Regards, Mike Priwer
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Rev. Vince
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Thanks, Mike. I am looking forward to getting the Letter of Authenticity. I hope it tells me to whom the gun was shipped. I hope that it was shipped to Portland P.D. (Oregon) or another police dept. nearby. I bought it from The Gun Room.
Ah! I stop by there whenever I'm on SE Foster! Maybe you'll get lucky!
Regards, Mike Priwer
Regards, Mike Priwer
