Primed 40S&W Brass - Primer Issue

[markr6754]

Didn't see whether this has been posted. Everglades Ammo has 40S&W primed new brass on clearance. The brass is Nugent headstamp manufactured by Jagemann. Unknown primers...and they are suspect...Everglades states 10% failure to ignite.

So...I bought 2 lots. Iffy primers means these are load development only for me. So that's what I did. Also provides an opportunity for practicing malfunction clearing.

So, as I'm also developing loads for 135gr Sinterfire frangible bullets, this was a great time to try a new powder, this time CFE-Pistol.

I have 2 semis in 40 S&W...a Springfield Armory EMP 3" and a Beretta PX4 Storm 4". Made a 3 rung ladder - 30 rounds - 5 per rung for each pistol.

SA EMP - 5 primer failures! 4 fired on 2nd or 3rd attempt. One refused to fire no matter how many times it was struck, or how it was positioned in the chamber.

B PX4 - loads that were already soft were even softer out of the Beretta. BUT - all 15 rounds AND the defective from the EMP test fired without issue.

So, perhaps these primers just need a stronger firing pin strike. I've had frequent light strikes in the EMP.

I need to increase the charge anyway, so I'll make another ladder, and see if the pattern repeats. If it does, then these cases will be dedicated to the Beretta. Sad, because the SA EMP is a tack driver. It shoots better than I am capable of shooting.

 

[krunchnik]

I also have the 3 inch EMP in .40S&W and was also experiencing light primer strikes-I installed a heavier mainspring and the problem disappeared.

 

[SMSgt]

"In my experience," I've never had a light strike caused by a primer issue. I've had primers seated high enough to nearly bind a revolver cylinder, yet every one popped on the first try. I've had two dud primer from one pack of CCIs many years ago and nary a misfire or second strike needed since.

I don't buy into the "thick cup, thinner cup" logic. If a gun has marginal firing pin/striker power, you're gonna have issues somewhere along the way. If your gun has trouble with CCI primers (or some other brand), your gun has a problem, not CCI (or whatever). Russian junk excluded.

 

[Golphin]

I have no idea about the primers but I know Everglades has always shipped me what I ordered free and it was always as they advertised. I have never had a complaint about their bullets or shipping time. A lot better than nothing if you don't have primers.

I recently loaded a bunch of 9mm with CFE powder and it worked well for me.

 

[markr6754]

I also have the 3 inch EMP in .40S&W and was also experiencing light primer strikes-I installed a heavier mainspring and the problem disappeared.

That may be the route that I take. This pistol has always troubled me with light strikes. During my break-in testing I could see very small firing pin dimples on some cases, and some fairly deep divots on others.
I'll give Springfield a call and see what they have to say. Maybe they can look it over before I start changing parts on a new firearm.

 

[markr6754]

"In my experience," I've never had a light strike caused by a primer issue. I've had primers seated high enough to nearly bind a revolver cylinder, yet every one popped on the first try. I've had two dud primer from one pack of CCIs many years ago and nary a misfire or second strike needed since.

I don't buy into the "thick cup, thinner cup" logic. If a gun has marginal firing pin/striker power, you're gonna have issues somewhere along the way. If your gun has trouble with CCI primers (or some other brand), your gun has a problem, not CCI (or whatever). Russian junk excluded.

No doubt you're absolutely correct. Except in this case, the brass is being sold really, really cheap. Almost once fired prices, because there is a known problem with the primers. Not my opinion...the entire reason the brass was sent to Everglades Ammo. I got lucky...found it because I was pretty desperate to find 40 S&W brass. Finding new, with primers installed...score!! As it happens...I have plenty of good, quality primers, and I saw this as free primers. Perfect for development..for me. Other people that just want half price brass can dump the primers.

 

[mckenney99]

If I remember correctly light strikes in some EMP's is a known issue. Contact Springfield, I believe they use a lightweight (Titanium?) firing pin & extra power firing pin spring to make it drop safe, since they use a series 70 fire control. A heavier standard firing pin should provide sufficient inertia to solve the problem without adversely affecting trigger pull or slide timing which a heavier mainspring can cause.

 

[BRL40]

Didn't see whether this has been posted. Everglades Ammo has 40S&W primed new brass on clearance. The brass is Nugent headstamp manufactured by Jagemann. Unknown primers...and they are suspect...Everglades states 10% failure to ignite...

Have never done business with Everglades, but they are to be commended for not trying to sweep the primer issue under the carpet and then passing it on to us.

 

[SMSgt]

No doubt you're absolutely correct. Except in this case, the brass is being sold really, really cheap. Almost once fired prices, because there is a known problem with the primers. Not my opinion...the entire reason the brass was sent to Everglades Ammo. I got lucky...found it because I was pretty desperate to find 40 S&W brass. Finding new, with primers installed...score!! As it happens...I have plenty of good, quality primers, and I saw this as free primers. Perfect for development..for me. Other people that just want half price brass can dump the primers.

Load the questionable cases for your PX4 as it seems it has no issue with the primers. Problem solved. After that it's whatever primers you stuff in them!

 

[markr6754]

Have never done business with Everglades, but they are to be commended for not trying to sweep the primer issue under the carpet and then passing it on to us.

I've bought bullets from them for nearly 3 years. Good quality, nice prices (in bulk), and free shipping. Prices are higher since June, and they've discontinued the 1,000 and 2,000 lots, so unit prices are higher. They've expanded their offerings to include brass and ammo (before shortages).
Hope that the bulk orders return soon, or I'll just have to start ordering from RMR 6 months in advance.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Sinterfire's published load data for this bullet is, as far as I can find, limited to a Bullseye and an ACCURATE #2 loading...

The Bullseye data really worked fine for me. I had an opportunity to pick up more Bullseye in quantity and haven't even tried any #2. Would appreciate you letting us know your CFE-Pistol developments. By using the Hodgdons data for heavier 155gr or 165gr bullets leads me to believe a reasonable start load with CFE-Pistol would be in the 5.6-6gr area... Just a suggestion. The Fiocchi factory 125gr stuff zips out at 1,350 fps, BTW. Hodgdons lists a "125gr Sfire" at 6.4gr MAX with CFE-Pistol for 1,237.

Good luck with those primers: talk about a "hit or miss" situation...! More like BANG! or no bang?

Cheers!

 

[markr6754]

I made it to the range to test my first ladder...135gr Sinterfire frangible bullets with CFE-Pistol powder. It was an interesting experience, made all the worst as I don't have a chronograph, and I'm shooting indoors. I have 2 pistols in 40 S&W, a Springfield Armory EMP 3" barrel, and a Beretta PX4 Storm 4" barrel. This was my first test of CFE-Pistol with the 135gr Sinterfire. I made up 10 rounds each with 4.9gr, 5.1gr, and 5.3gr, all on the low side for a 180gr projectile (the 135gr SF bullet is longer than traditional 180gr projectiles). I then shot 5 of each, low to high, from each pistol. During the case prep, I attempted to reseat each primer on the press (Hornady LNL Classic Single Stage). I detected no movement of the primers.

Without all the boring details:

Springfield EMP - the loads were quite soft, and I experienced multiple primer failures, 4 out of 5 failing primers fired on the 2nd or even 3rd strike of the hammer. Good malfunction clearance practice. One round endured 5 strikes without igniting...I'd even turned the round in the magazine and tried to fire it again. Happily, the pistol seemed to like getting rid of the last round, as it locked back the slide each time. In the end, 14 of 15 rounds fired, eventually, in the EMP. Sadly, there's no way to distinguish when a primer will ignite beforehand.

Here's where it gets interesting...

Beretta PX4 Storm - every round fired without issue. 16 of 16...the extra being the round that refused to fire in the SA EMP. There were no repeat strikes...every primer ignited on the first attempt. Now, the loads felt even softer firing out of the Beretta, and I had multiple failures to eject/load, whereas I had none of these problems in the SA EMP.

The problem with the SA EMP is one I've experienced since I purchased the gun. Light Primer Strikes, even shooting factory ammo. However, these primers looked like they were getting a solid strike...nice, deep indentations, yet they failed at a higher than expected rate, while the same rounds in the Beretta PX4 Storm had no ignition problems at all.

All in all, quite the interesting outing, but I need to develop a new ladder, perhaps starting at 5.4gr or 5.5 gr and working up.
__________________
"Draw me not without reason, sheath me not without honor."

 

[SMSgt]

Sounds like a stronger hammer spring is needed for the EMP. I hear Wolff calling your name.

 

[markr6754]

Sounds like a stronger hammer spring is needed for the EMP. I hear Wolff calling your name.

Nope...Wolff isn't calling. They don't make springs for the Springfield EMP. That and they've stopped taking orders by any means.