Proper grip & trigger usage

[mjsmith1223]

So, I am sort of new to pistols. Always been a rifle/shotgun guy. The handgun discipline is an exciting new adventure for me.

What does a proper grip on the M&P look like? Last night I was shooting with the pistol group at my club and one of the instructors told me I need to work on my grip and get it higher on the gun. How do I do that so it becomes second nature and I don't have to think about it?

Before the pistol group, I was doing some shooting on my own and noticed I was consistently left. I suspect the problem is with me and the way I was pulling the trigger. Which part of my finger should be on the trigger? The fatty part or the crook (for lack of a better term)? I know it needs to go straight back and I work on that. The old "breathe in, breathe out, squeeze" from my rifle shooting doesn't seem to directly translate.

Just for information: I have an M&P 9c and that's what I was shooting last night. In spite of all the rookie errors, it still functioned flawlessly.

 

[Ranger17]

Just for information: I have an M&P 9c and that's what I was shooting last night. In spite of all the rookie errors, it still functioned flawlessly.

With only 1.5 years of shooting under this old man's belt, my .22 handguns are easy enough for me to be a competent shooter at the range (and they are pretty forgiving on faults). But when i first tried my 9c a few months ago it wasnt real pretty lol. Low & left, worse when using the flat bottom mag compared to the one w/ pinky rest. I was given some solid pointers from an instructor at a range, which helped immensely. After a couple more range trips i've gotten far better and more comfortable with it; enough that up to 15yds (SC's test limit) i'm within 4-6" on most shots. Not real good or great but slowly getting there. So as a newb myself, i'd say grab some instruction and practice. Lastly since i enjoy range time, i picked up a 17rnd mag and adapter. While i wont try it at the range until this weekend i can say the grip already feels (for me) far better then the short 12 rnds. I'll be curious to see my accuracy between "full grip" and "compact grip".

 

[Bkreutz]

There is a lot of info on the net, this is one. How to shoot a handgun accurately by Massad Ayoob There are a lot more.

 

[mjsmith1223]

Excellent article! Thank you!

 

[RobzGuns]

There are quite a few good 'grip' videos out there. This is one of my favorites:
Youtube Search for 'Thumb Position For Pistol Shooting'.
(I tried just posting the link, but it embedded the video instead.)

Basically, get the web of your hand as high up on the backstrap (upper curve) as possible (circle #1). You want NO gap between the upper curve of the backstrap and your hand, as this gap would end up becoming a pivot point.

Even though the front of the trigger guard seems like a perfect place to put your Support Hand's index finger, use all 4 fingers of your support hand to 'encase' the 3 fingers of your shooting hand, below the trigger guard and lock it in (circle #3). The video will demonstrate this better than I can explain it.
Here's a pretty good pick:

As for which part of your trigger finger to use... It varies due to the length of your fingers. You want to use whichever part of your finger allows you to pull the trigger straight rearward without twisting the barrel. For some, it's the center of the Pad, for others (like me), it's the 1st knuckle joint. If you don't pull the trigger straight rearward, this could cause you to shoot left.
When you pull the trigger, you want to Isolate your trigger finger. By that, I mean, you don't want to feel your entire hand move. This might be considered 'Milking' the trigger, which could cause you to shoot low.
Many initially shoot Compacts and Subcompacts Low & Left, until they work on their trigger control.

You can work on your trigger control with 'Dry Fire' practice. Make sure that the pistol is unloaded and that there is no ammo in the area. Pick a spot on the wall, take aim and pull the trigger while focusing on the front sight. Did the front sight move off that spot you were aiming at when you pulled the trigger? If so, you need to adjust your trigger pull (part of your finger you're using and/or isolating your trigger finger).

 

[PastureOfMuppets]

It's worth going and taking a proper class with a good instructor so they can keep an eye on what your doing and avoid getting any training scars.

Videos are great and will give you the theory and technique... but you can't replace a hands on instructor.

 

[mjsmith1223]

That picture is exactly what the instructor showed me last night on his 1911. Now, to just practice it enough on my gun to make it automatic.

I totally agree about instructors. Even having just one or two sessions with someone can be valuable and dramatically speed up the learning process.

 

[mjsmith1223]

Found this YouTube channel for I-4 Tactical Solutions while searching around:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChi9KMRouqVj0Yg7e0dBXiQ

Found some good examples to practice there.

 

[RobzGuns]

Yup... I-4 Tactical is the group that has the video I mentioned.
Good group o videos for information and practice drills.

 

[Rastoff]

Rob put up a pretty good post.

Here is what I normally post concerning grip:

Relax your thumb and get it higher in the grip. Like this:

Yes, I know that's not an M&P, but the grip is the same.

Then when the other hand comes up, it should look like this:

Yes, I also realize that I'm a lefty. The grip is the same for right handers, but a mirror image.

If you are crossing your thumbs, stop it. That has the effect of pulling the gun down. With your thumbs high, the bore is lower in the grip and allows for faster/easier recoil control.

Also, ensure the bore is in line, as much as you physically can, with your forearm:

One more thing, relax your pinkies. They offer little to no help with stabilizing the grip. I've even had some students put their pinkies straight out and seen dramatic improvement in group size. Shooters that clamp down with their pinkies tend to pull the gun down. Relax those pinkies.



Now, this is just a base; a starting point. None of this is set in stone. If you shoot better with your hands arranged a little differently, OK. All that really matters is where the bullets hit the target.

Speaking of targets, take a look at this:

This is a way to analyze potential grip issues by looking where your bullets hit.

 

[OilTrader]

To add to Rob and Rastoff's excellent pointers, a two-handed grip consists of (duh!) two hands. In your strong hand, grip pressure should be along the long axis of the pistol with the weak hand applying pressure side-to-side, clamping down on the strong hand.

 

[Rastoff]

To add to Rob and Rastoff's excellent pointers, a two-handed grip consists of (duh!) two hands. In your strong hand, grip pressure should be along the long axis of the pistol with the weak hand applying pressure side-to-side, clamping down on the strong hand.

This is a good point, but, if you have a good grip, there is little to no pressure necessary side to side. The forces are mainly back and up from recoil. If the gun is trying to rotate in your hand, check your grip.

 

[snubbyfan]

Instruction from the man himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s

 

[mjsmith1223]

Thank you everyone. This is all really good stuff.

From the target pic I can see that I am using too little trigger finger. I need to use a little more.

To get a tactile feel for getting my right thumb higher, I touch the slide release with it. If I can feel the slide release, I know I'm not dropping my thumb down. I also switched the palm swell from the small size to the medium size. This helps push my hand up higher on the grip more naturally, which is what I wanted.

I attached a pic of my right handed grip. My left hand falls in much more naturally now.

 

[ivanwi11iams]

Instruction from the man himself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s

I'm sitting here amazed. Flipping brilliant shooting. I've just spent the past hour or so watching his YouTube videos.
I'd love to be able to shoot on target as fast as him.

 

[Rastoff]

From the target pic I can see that I am using too little trigger finger. I need to use a little more.

The diagnostic target is just a reference; a place to start. Only actual shooting will tell if the recommendation will fix your issue. So, test it at the range. If it works, great. However, if it doesn't, don't get too frustrated.

I'd love to be able to shoot on target as fast as him.

Anyone who shoots a handgun want's to be able to shoot like him.

 

[Mcwsky09]

The diagnostic target is just a reference; a place to start. Only actual shooting will tell if the recommendation will fix your issue. So, test it at the range. If it works, great. However, if it doesn't, don't get too frustrated.

Anyone who shoots a handgun want's to be able to shoot like him.

Not sure I will ever shoot enough to be as good as Mr Miculek but I sure would like to have his home range in my back yard.

 

[Robotech]

I'd love to be able to shoot on target as fast as him.

Takes proper technique and plenty of practice!

One way to make it fun is with bowling-pin competitions. Typically with five targets, you're trying to clear the table as quickly as possible. Your targets are also quite a bit smaller than Mr. Miculek was using, so shot placement is more critical. There are a number of videos showing this out there. Our club weekly pin-shooting meets are well attended.

 

[sgmann69]

Just remember Mr. Miculek's job is shooting guns. I would guess he shoots thousands of rounds a week. I think I would become proficient if I could quit my day job and shoot guns all day. I'm just saying.

 

[Llando88]

Just remember Mr. Miculek's job is shooting guns. I would guess he shoots thousands of rounds a week. I think I would become proficient if I could quit my day job and shoot guns all day. I'm just saying.

Actually I'm pretty sure Mr. Miculek is an Alien. There is no way a regular human being shoots like that.



But seriously, great info in this thread.

My question, if OP does not mind my asking, what is 'overgripping'?

Is it say when the lower fingers reflexively tighten during trigger roll (to use Mr. Ayoob's term)?

As a lefty, I have a consistent lower right POI by four inches at 7 yards from POA. It's not the gun as my wife shoots POI about the same to the left (she's a righty).

Would using a 'crush grip' help with this?

How hard do YOU hold a handgun?