Proper Position of the Thumbs-Shooting a Revolver

[HitTheTarget]

I hope the following question does not generate too many raised eyebrows. The "right" answers are likely: 1) be sure to keep your thumbs away from the chamber-especially the gap between the chamber and the barrel and 2) whatever feels OK and works for you is the right grip to use
That said, here is the question: I'm working my way through a fine book entitled "The Perfect Pistol Shot" by Albert League III (copyright 2011). I was cruising along until I got to the part on proper grip. The author makes a pretty strong argument for keeping ones thumbs (shooting and support hands) off the handgun, at a 45 degree angle-I assume to the line of the barrel. The logic is any pressure from the thumbs on the frame can cause unwanted torque and throw your shot off
I have to say this thumbs off approach is different from what I've read, been taught, and what I see in various videos. I tried it out-dry fire practice with my J frame- while I didn't drop the gun, this change in grip felt a little less than "natural". I'll have a chance to try it out with live fire later this week
I'm willing to try it and spend time retraining with a new grip, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with this approach. I'm new enough to shooting to not have too many bad habits (yet)

Thanks in advance for the input (and Happy New Year) to all!!

 

[Recruit]

I've heard you should always shoot with a thumb up your butt .

Kidding aside, I've not paid much attention to thumb placement which is probably part of the reason I don't shoot as well as I could. I'll be watching your thread to see what informed shooters have to say.

 

[scooter123]

If I'm interpreting you correctly this IDIOT is proposing a "thumbs off" approach to a handgun grip. If so he is suggesting a grip that will rather severely impede Recoil Management. As a result your ability to return to target will be slowed a lot, it's possible that you'll increase your split time by a factor of 2 or more. IMO what we have here is a "competitive" shooter looking in improve his ranking by conning his opponents in to adopting a hare brained method that will really slow them down. The good Lord gave us opposable thumbs for a reason, so that we could grip things more securely.

 

[Imaposer]

If I'm interpreting you correctly this IDIOT is proposing a "thumbs off" approach to a handgun grip. If so he is suggesting a grip that will rather severely impede Recoil Management. As a result your ability to return to target will be slowed a lot, it's possible that you'll increase your split time by a factor of 2 or more. IMO what we have here is a "competitive" shooter looking in improve his ranking by conning his opponents in to adopting a hare brained method that will really slow them down. The good Lord gave us opposable thumbs for a reason, so that we could grip things more securely.

I tend to agree!

I could perhaps see this proposed method being a useful technique for slow fire SA bullseye type shooting, but even if it does have merit (not sure about that either actually), it has serious disadvantages for most anything else.

I good firm grip is essential for recoil mitigation as well as good DA trigger control of a revolver.

When shooting my J frames I curl my strong hand thumb (right) down tightly (partly to keep it away from the cylinder release) and wrap my weak hand thumb (left) over the back of my strong hand, a la Jerry Miculek. I find this locks my hands together very effectively and allows for a good firm grip by squeezing with both thumbs. Feels rock solid to me.

When shooting my K or N frames I curl my weak hand thumb down over the strong hand thumb. This works well for me with the larger guns but doesn't seem to lock my hands together quite as effectively as my J frame grip.

 

[Old cop]

I wrap my support hand's thumb across the backstrap and over my left shooting hand with revolvers, much like the poster above. This is especially effective when shooting my J frame but this may not work for others. My hands are extra large, glove size, with long slender fingers & thumbs.

Several videos show other ways but this is how I was trained in the police academy b/c of my large hands & what works for me.

 

[IAhunter]

Revolver grip as taught by the USBP academy in years past:

Strong thumb horizontal (toward threat) against the grip and some of the frame, below cylinder latch. Weak thumb more or less vertical against strong thumb, locking it down. Thumbs make contact between the first and second joints. Heels of palms make contact forming something resembling a clam shell.

This grip served thousands of agents well over the years.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I hope the following question does not generate too many raised eyebrows. The "right" answers are likely: 1) be sure to keep your thumbs away from the chamber-especially the gap between the chamber and the barrel and 2) whatever feels OK and works for you is the right grip to use
That said, here is the question: I'm working my way through a fine book entitled "The Perfect Pistol Shot" by Albert League III (copyright 2011). I was cruising along until I got to the part on proper grip. The author makes a pretty strong argument for keeping ones thumbs (shooting and support hands) off the handgun, at a 45 degree angle-I assume to the line of the barrel. The logic is any pressure from the thumbs on the frame can cause unwanted torque and throw your shot off
I have to say this thumbs off approach is different from what I've read, been taught, and what I see in various videos. I tried it out-dry fire practice with my J frame- while I didn't drop the gun, this change in grip felt a little less than "natural". I'll have a chance to try it out with live fire later this week
I'm willing to try it and spend time retraining with a new grip, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experience with this approach. I'm new enough to shooting to not have too many bad habits (yet)

Thanks in advance for the input (and Happy New Year) to all!!

Just my thoughts, but "grip" (what you do with your hand), as opposed to "stock" (the wooden, rubber or whatever handle you hang onto), is best explained in three sources and I recommend that everyone who wants to learn to shoot study these sources first.

The sources are Bill Jordan's "No Second Place Winner," Jeff Cooper's "Modern Technique of the Pistol" (the book by Morrison, one of the Gunsite instructors, or Cooper himself on the DVD series - and yes, Cooper teaches the proper grip for a revolver) and "Training the Gunfighter" by Tim Mullin, who also authored the recent book called "Magnum - The S&W .357 Magnum Phenomenon."

I do not believe any of these sources will recommend this new-fangled and unfortunate "thumbs forward" grip that we seem to see so much of on the Outdoor Channel and other competition based shooting type cable TV programs. Be careful with that one as if you forget and use "thumbs forward" you might just end up with the equivalent of touching a welding torch to the tip of your digit. I observed one of these modern day gunfighter types on TV demonstrating the "proper use" of the "pocket pistol" using this "thumbs forward" grip, and it is only by sheer luck that he did not blow the end of his own thumb off as the support hand thumb really did extend beyond the muzzle on the little .380. Be careful.

Another word about the crossing the support hand thumb over the back of the shooting hand. This is an old and even valid technique for revolvers, especially small revolvers, with one caveat. I have seen more than one person thoughtlessly forget to change shooting technique for the auto. The result is a permanent change in grip for both revolver and auto as the slide rips away part of the support hand thumb because the hapless shooter crossed the support hand thumb over the back of the shooting hand thumb. This is, unfortunately, a common mistake, but one that is not oft repeated!

I suppose that is one, among many, reasons that I prefer curling the shooting hand thumb down and locking it in place with the support hand thumb, which stays on the side of the weapon. This method keeps the digit away from the muzzle in the case of the little .380s, and it keeps the digits away from the barrel cylinder gap on revolvers.

Just remember - you can recover from having your hide ripped off your thumb if you mistakenly cross your support thumb over, but until medical science perfects either re-attachment of a severed digit or the growth of a new one, you will not happily recover from sticking your thumb either in front of the muzzle or alongside the barrel cylinder gap.

 

[HitTheTarget]

Thanks for the input-proper thumb position

Let me thank everyone who provided input. The person who wrote the book I mentioned is no stranger to handguns per his credits. I agree, this thumbs off approach seems to go counter to everything I've been taught or read. I'll give it a try at the local range and if it makes a huge difference I'll let you know. Otherwise I'll stick to the more conventional approaches

 

[rwsmith]

thumbs on

This sounds like it would make a secure hold on the gun tenuous. I consider a thumb alongside the left of the frame essential for safe handling. Also if you are readying for a shot and have your finger inside the trigger guard, a slip could make you hit the trigger when you don't want to. I'll try it out (dry and over my bed) to see if it has any merit at all to me. I have a 686 and it's a handful anyway!

 

[Mickey D]

I'm a little tea cup...

j/k

 

[snubbyfan]

With my snubby I've found the "crossed thumbs"grip works best for me. It helps me with accuracy and recoil control for quicker follow up shots

 

[VirMagnus]

Coming from autos, gripping a revolver still feels unnatural. The most "natural" way is to let my weak-hand thumb float out in space, or else I always manage to leave some skin on the cylinder release

 

[jaymoore]

It depends on what and how you are shooting. A .22 target pistol one handed, bulls-eye style, requires a far different shooting style.

Given that recoil, grip configuration, hand size and placement, speed versus accuracy requirements, trigger reach and pull weight all are factors, if the grip's consistant, then the results should be, too.

 

[David Sinko]

A high thumb hold with the shooting hand is a carryover of the IPSC shooters and their 1911 autos with light triggers and thumb safeties and has no place on a revolver with a heavy DA trigger pull. Positioning the thumb high or lifting it off the grip frame severely compromises the strength of the trigger finger and offers no recoil control. The thumb of the shooting hand must be curled down tight if you hope to have any speed when shooting double action.

The thumb of the support hand is a different story. I press mine along the frame below the cylinder, pointing straight out toward the target. I press hard enough that I have actually worn a shiny spot on the matte finish of my most used 625. My accuracy does not suffer at all.

I have small hands but long fingers and my support thumb is nowhere near the cylinder gap when resting against the frame.

Dave Sinko

 

[av8usn]

Rather than verbalize, here is a video that explains the grip that I prefer. In any event, keep your thumbs and fingers away from the front of the cylinder.

How to Two-hand grip a double or single action revolver « Firearms

 

[sodacan]

Along with apes, Our thumbs differentiate us from other animals, giving us among other things the ability to use tools. Without them, we can't stabilize what we are holding or maintain a proper grip. If you doubt this, go watch your dog try to turn a door knob. Good luck to all.

 

[Black_Sheep]

Shooting right handed, right thumb down to keep it from being bit by the cylinder latch with my support hand (left) thumb locking down over my right.

 

[texmex]

Search the internet and see if you can find a picture that shows how Jerry Miculek holds a revolver. If the way he is doing it is wrong, I don't want to be right. I think he has won 20 IRC Champdionships. Whatever he is doing must be correct.
On the other hand, your hands may not be the same size or shape as his. Whatever works for you is correct as long as it is safe. "If it feels good, do it!"

 

[DepOne]

Along with apes, Our thumbs differentiate us from other animals, giving us among other things the ability to use tools. Without them, we can't stabilize what we are holding or maintain a proper grip. If you doubt this, go watch your dog try to turn a door knob. Good luck to all.

I thought what differentiated us from animals was the fear of vacuum cleaners?

On a two handed grip (pistol or revolver) my weak side thumb is pointing up and pretty relaxed. Everything else is locked in place. On a one handed grip the strong side thumb is wrapped around the top of the stock and assisting in the firm grip of the weapon. This has served me well in both target shooting and social situations but, when I was an academy instructor I always tried to deveop a comfortable, firm grip that my student was efficient with. Too many instructors develop a "one size fits all" attitude that could very well get your student hurt (or worse) and make the development of a competent and confident shooter more difficult, if not impossible. Use what is safe and works!

 

[Edmo]

It's all about the thumb meat...

I'm a "wrap my support thumb around the back" on my J-frames if I want the most stable grip. I use it only for those long range single action shots.

However, using the "thumb around back" technique has its down side. If you also shoot autos, one day you will mistakenly put your thumb back there and will lose thumb meat when the slide cycles.

So which is my go-to grip for revolvers? I use the "both thumbs on top of each other along the side" grip. It works with both autos and revolvers and during one of my stupid times it will not cost me thumb meat.

Edmo