Pure nitrocellulose cartridges?

[Me239]

Can anyone think of any cartridges that were loaded with pure, packed gun-cotton (nitrocellulose)? I want to say that I've heard that there were a few that successfully used it (maybe a webley?). The reason I ask is cause I might be interested in trying some in a .22lr. I've reloaded them with BP before, but pure gun cotton sounds like it might be fun to try in a cartridge. Thanks!

 

[scooter123]

I would suggest that you do some reading. Because what I've seen indicates that pure unadulteraged gun cotton is only slightly less unstable than Nitro Glycerin once it dries. As I understand it one of the major hurdles that had to be overcome in the early days of the development of Smokeless Powder was finding a stabilizing agent for Nitrocellulose.

 

[rwsmith]

Modern powder has a LOT...

Modern powder has a lot of additives that affect a dozen characteristics. I did some reading as a result of your question and found that the first celluloid billiard balls exploded on contact until they perfected the process.

One thing I've thought of is what would happen if you shredded up old Nitrate movie film which is the same animal as nitrocellulose. Used to be that a fire in a projection room was VERY serious because the film burned like gunpowder and was fierce and difficult to put out. Any conceivably you could use the stuff for gunpowder but without retardants it would surely blow up a gun.

PS In 1908, Kodak was the first to replace the nitrate film with 'Safety film'. An AWFUL LOT of movies were made on the nitrate film though, and tons of archives are in danger of deterioration. The signs of deterioration of nitrate film are a vinegar smell and pink/red substance which is just like gun powder.

PPS If anybody still make 'cordite' that is the next best thing to raw nitrocelluse.

 

[Me239]

I've made a lot of my own Nitrocelluose before and loaded it up in cartridges, but never put a projectile on top. It was never unstable in my experiences (other than it's heat sensitivity). I was just curious as to whether or not anyone has ever used pure nitrated cellulose in a cartridge before. I know YouTube has plenty of golf ball cannons made out of PVC pipe using it, but never have I seen someone online load up some handloads with their own single base powder.

And as far as cordite goes, I'm not sure I'm too comfortable with much more than a Ml of Nitroglycerin xD

PS. I originally made the Nitrocelluose so I could make my own celluloid guitar picks. I even got pure camphor for them.

 

[Skeetr57]

Back in the WWI era,, the US government loaded some artillery shells and hand grenades with gun cotton as a high explosive. Radford Army Ammunition Plant in Va used to be the main source of nitrocellulose for the Army, and I can remember a number of explosions on their nitrocellulose line. It is not something that you want to fool around with. Cordite is a combination of nitro cellulose, nitroglycerin and Vaseline. It has a high NG content and was very erosive to rifle barrels. As for making film into propellant, an articl in an old Gun Digest or Handloaders Digest described cutting up old film and using it to load shotgun shell in Australia during WWII.

 

[Neumann]

Nitrocellulose (guncotton) is not a single entity. There are many levels of nitration. The closest propellant to pure nitrocellulose is probably Cordite, which was popular leading up to WWI. Smokeless powder is classed loosely into single base (nitrocellulose) and double base (nitroglycerine added). There also are many additives and shape factors which affect the burning rate.

You would never want a solid mass of smokeless powder, since it would detonate rather than deflagrate, with pressures well beyond what any metallurgy could withstand. Even black powder will detonate if compressed too much (>>100K psi).

 

[OldK22]

Alot of the old Kynoch ammunition was listed as nitrocellulose loaded on the boxes.

 

[Nemo288]

Since cordite was almost 60% nitroglycerine, I don't see how it is anywhere close to being like a single based nitrocellulose propellant.
It was replaced in many cases with IMR which is nitrocellulose only and later Ball powders which have both.
I prefer the single based powders even if they do have less energy per weight.

Cordite
IMR powder

===
Nemo

 

[Troystat]

Sounds like a way to blow something up, speaking of cordite I was watching a special about the battle of Jutland in WW1 and they showed some old footage of some British factory worker packaging the bags that held the cordite for the battle ship guns and the cordite looked like 18" long bundles of drinking straws and the worker was banging them up and down on a bench to get them all level before he stuffed them into silk bags for use in the guns.

 

[Frank46]

Speaking of cordite. There was a tv show about Gallipoli and some diver went down and recovered some of the long cordite strands. Lit one with a match and after almost 100 years in the water it burned just fine. I think the tank cartridges for the M1 Abrams are self consuming upon firing and the only thing left after firing is basically the base of the case. If I'm wrong please correct me. Frank

 

[Me239]

I think someone mentioned it earlier, but there are a few forms of nitrocellulose. There's the normal trinitrate, which is the normal "flash paper" and magician's stuff. Then there's the hexanitrate variation that's unstable and detonates when confined. I was referring to the former as an experimental powder. Any ideas of what to mix it with to slow the burn rate? I heard of people using gun cotton braided in strands around sticks in early smokeless rifle cartridges.

 

[DWalt]

There are basically two forms of NC, termed "Pyrocellulose" and "High Grade." They differ in the degree of nitration and solubility in solvents, and it is necessary to use a blend of both types of NC in the manufacture of single base gun propellants. IMR propellants are single base. Most propellants used for large artillery are also single base. Single base propellants are essentially NC along with various additives, such as stabilizers and anti-flash compounds. Double-base propellants will have various percentages of nitroglycerine blended in, and results in a somewhat more energetic material which burns at a higher temperature.

Manufacture of smokeless powder is considerably more complicated than most might suspect. A tour through a smokeless powder plant is a real eye-opener. I worked in that industry for several years.