Question about regulations.

[ingmansinc]

Is it a law that a concealed carry be in some type of holster and not just placed in your pocket? I am in Florida and a gun shop said it was law. I doubt it as LEO and BATF have told me that I can carry in my pocket and that is actually a very good method.

 

[ingmansinc]

Is it a law that a concealed carry be in some type of holster and not just placed in your pocket? I am in Florida and a gun shop said it was law. I doubt it as LEO and BATF have told me that I can carry in my pocket and that is actually a very good method.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by ingmansinc:
Is it a law that a concealed carry be in some type of holster and not just placed in your pocket? I am in Florida and a gun shop said it was law. I doubt it as LEO and BATF have told me that I can carry in my pocket and that is actually a very good method.

It depends on the exact wording of your state's law.

In Ohio, our law states that you must carry the gun in a holster while it is on your person. You can carry in a pocket, so long as the gun is in a holster. I guess that's why they make pocket holsters.

Now I'm going to go off on a tangent.

We as gun owners in general, and those who carry handguns in particular, need to KNOW the law. That means not relying on internet, gunshop, or cops' opinions of it.

Each one of us is responsible for complying with the law, and ignorance of it, or thinking you are in the right "because a cop told me it is OK", or thinking you are in the wrong "because a cop told me it is not OK", just does not cut it.

With this here internet, it boggles the mind that people still ask questions like this one.

If you live in Florida and haven't done so yet (evidently), get the official Florida Statutes online (yes, they are on line) and READ the sections related to firearms, concealed carry, and self defense. Write down any section or chapter that you do not understand and then ask........wait for it.......A LAWYER to explain it to you. Pay whatever you need to pay for that explanation.

Do not ask cops. Do not ask guys at the gun club (unless one of them is a lawyer that knows Florida firearm laws). Do not ask at the gun shop or gun show.

If you don't know any lawyers who are familiar with your state's firearm laws, call.......wait for it.......your state's Bar Association! Who knew?

 

[bk43]

There is nothing anywhere in FL statutes about holsters or for that matter how you carry any other concealed weapon. Find a new gun store.

While some parts of the FL statutes can be confusing, there is nothing confusing about what isn't even in there.

Bob

 

[flop-shank]

Unless you have a reason unknown to me, I would use a holster even if legal to do so otherwise. A good holster keeps the gun properly oriented, the trigger covered and crap out of/off of the gun.

 

[OKFC05]

Maybe he's confusing it with GA?
They have such a law, FL does not.

As a concealed carry instructor, let me offer you some more free advice: READ the law; neither I nor the gunshop owner have a law degree, and the laws are (more or less) in English.
http://www.handgunlaw.us/

 

[38-44HD45]

OK is right. I know; I do have a law degree!

When you got (get?) your FL CHL application, you got a pamphlet with the applicable statutes in it. (I know; I just got my FL renewal application a few days ago.) Read it; then, read it again.

 

[ingmansinc]

Thanks for the response to my question. ALL answers were appreciated. I have done my homework and every now and again someone says something during the course of daily conversation that I doubt is accurate. I ask here first because of the wide spectrum of people we have to draw answers from. When I am really serious about getting information I pay a visit to the lawyer.

 

[38-44HD45]

I have probably heard more outright BS and lies in gun shops than in car dealerships; maybe more than on the internet! Naaa, guess not...

Even though I expect it, I'm still sometimes amazed at what my CHL students relate to me that they have been told in gun shops.

 

[Guest]

One other thing that must also be considered is "Case Law" which isn't always 'Codified' but still applies. The Laws here aren't real clear about just how you must carry - Holster or not isn't in the Laws. But the Courts have determined that the gun must be under your "Direct Control"(while you are in your vehicle) and not accessible to someone who should NOT have access to a firearm. This means it's OKay to put your pistol in your glove box - as long as you can reach it without changing your position behind the wheel of your vehicle but it's NOT OKay if your kid is sitting in front of the glove box!

We don't have a requirement that a person has to attend a particular firearms class before they can get their CPL and I personally thing that is a very good thing - but that's another thread altogether. When you get your CPL you are supposed to be provided with a pamphlet printed by the Fish and Game Department; which is supposed to be updated every year and is supposed to include the "Case Law" as well as the RCWs. The last copy I saw was pretty well done but it's been a lot of years since I've seen one of these. As the Name indicates it is the FISH and Game Department and the Dollar$$$ go toward the State Fisheries a whole lot faster than they do toward anything having to do with Game; including the updating and printing of this booklet.

 

[38-44HD45]

Mike, in Florida it is the Dept. of Agriculture that issues CHLs. But what I really like is that the head of the Dept. of Agriculture is a fellow named Charles Bronson! I just love having his name on my FL permit!

 

[flop-shank]

Charles Bronson!

LOL

 

[Guest]

But what I really like is that the head of the Dept. of Agriculture is a fellow named Charles Bronson!

Interesting choice of Departments for the control of such licensing!!! Ours are 'signed' by the local Chief of Police or County Sheriff because they are the "Issuing Agency" but I think they all went to the same school of handwriting as the Doctors are required to attend.!!!

Our CPLs are issued according to where you live. If you live in the County then it is the Sheriff and if you live in the City then it is the Chief of Police. But, it is still a State regulated license with very specific Rules that apply to everyone. It wasn't always such but then we've had State based "Concealed Carry" since 1935. There was a time when certain 'Politicians' used this right in less than the way it was intended. At one point I had three(3) Licenses to Carry Concealed Weapons. One was issued by the local PD where I lived and was the only one that was really "legal" under the Law. I had one from a County and one from a City within that County; because I was working for a Security Guard doing business on County land but was working in a City owned building! Since the Company I was working for at the time was paying the bill for the extra Licenses I didn't really care.

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Here in Ohio concealed handgun licenses are handled exclusively by the county Sheriffs, who have to follow the laws governing their issuance and denial set forth by the General Assembly.

You can apply in the county that you live in or in any other contiguous county.

I live in Miami County but got my license from Champaign County because their hours were much more accomodating and their issue time is measured in days, not weeks.

It took the Champaign County SO three business days to issue my license from the time I turned in my application. It takes on average 35 days in my own county.

 

[38-44HD45]

Mike and Wyatt: Neither of your states are true "shall issue," right? Usually, when a local agency is involved in issuance, it is only in discretionary issue states, at least in what I've seen. I'd be curious to know how your systems work out if they are actually shall issue, but with local sheriffs involved.

I originally got my FL license before Texas had reciprocity with very many states, primarily because we did not at that time have reciprocity with Colorado, and I was planning on spending some time there. We now do, but since the FL license is cheap and easy to keep, and it runs a year beyond my TX license, I'm renewing it. Therefore, if DPS is running behind on processing renewals, I don't have to worry about a gap, since my FL license is good here, too. And, there's that cool Charles Bronson thing...

 

[Guest]

Washington is a "Shall Issue" State and as long as you can legally purchase a firearm you will be issued a CPL if you apply for one. Before an Agency can refuse to issue a License they have to take you in front of a Judge and provide the "Proof" that you aren't legally able to purchase.

Clear back in 1935 the 'responsibility' for the issuing was established as the local Law Enforcement Agency. For a while a couple of those 'Agencies' decided they needed the income more than the State did so they decided to start issuing "local" licenses. Those Agencies went so far as to 'issue' licenses that looked exactly like the State issued ones. The ONLY difference was instead of "State of Washington" it said "County of So&So" and "City of Such&Such". In the late '70s a couple of Deer Hunters had gone to the other side of the State to hunt and by accident one of them let his sidearm show while they were "in Town" getting grub etc. As it happened they happened to be "Gentlemen of Color" and the local 'Eastsiders' got very jumpy. The local PD responded as would be expected to a "Man with a Gun" report the the Hunters found themselves in handcuffs. They protested and were allowed to show their Licenses but were informed that since they had been issued by the "City" and not the "State" the Licenses weren't worth the paper they were printed on, as the saying goes. It turned out that these particular "Gentlemen" also happened to be Attorneys - one of the reasons they were issued the Licenses to begin with. That particular City(the one who had issued the 'bogus' Licenses) and the County found themselves in the Deep end of the Pool and things changed. I've very sure the State knew all about what they were doing but choose not to do anything about it - can you say Politics???

I understand that those two Agencies still do there best to drag their feet about issuing but they are issuing and they are issuing "State" Licenses.

My renewal is generally in my hands within a week of when I apply. I can also "apply" up to 90 before it expires and up to 90 days after and it will still be considered to be a renewal. Which means just a matter of filling out the form and paying the fee.

So, Yes, we are a Shall Issue State!

 

[38-44HD45]

Thanks for the info, Mike! Glad to hear it. We do not have reciprocity with WA, but Gov. Perry has issued a proclamation that Texas will honor WA permits. that likely would not be true unless you had a shall-issue law, so i should have known. We can't carry in WA under our Texas licenses, though.

 

[Guest]

We can't carry in WA under our Texas licenses, though.

I too am sorry about that. The liberals have us in their clutches and it doesn't look like it will get much better in the near future. Too many Democrats and way too many lazy Republicans!!!

 

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally posted by 38-44HD45:
Mike and Wyatt: Neither of your states are true "shall issue," right? Usually, when a local agency is involved in issuance, it is only in discretionary issue states, at least in what I've seen. I'd be curious to know how your systems work out if they are actually shall issue, but with local sheriffs involved.

Ohio is MOST DEFINITELY a shall issue state.

The State Legislature, instead of mandating that a state agency like the Ohio State Bureau of Investigation or some other department of the Attorney General's Office (we don't have a state police or DPS) run our licensing, mandated that the county sheriffs be responsible for the administration of the concealed license handgun program.

The system is not discretionary because the legislature sets forth in the Ohio Revised Code the requirements to be licensed, the disqualifying criteria, and mandated that the sheriff must issue the license unless one or more of the disqualifying criteria is met by the applicant.

So our system works exactly like a shall issue system that is centrally administered (like Texas or Florida) except that the administration is done at the county level but following a standard set of rules that give the sheriffs no latitude in the criteria for issuance or denial.

Read all about it here: Ohio Revised Code Section 2923.125 Application and Licensing Process

 

[38-44HD45]

And thanks to you, Wyatt! I am always happy to hear that ANY state is a shall-issue state, and the more I think about it, the better I like the idea of decentralization of the program. I could make an argument for the centralized, FL/TX paradigm, but in the absence of local corruption, I think I like your system better. (I am all too familiar with the problems of local corruption, having had the "opportunity" to see it on a fairly grand scale, proportionate to population, at an early age. However, a centralized system is not immune to such.) Thankfully, here in Texas, we have a (mostly) really good group administering our program, with the only real downside being bureaucratic logjams that slow issuance of licenses. The latter is why I think local systems may be better.