shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I didn't know Mike Stewart had started using 154CM in Bark Rivers. All mine have been A2 and performed wonderfully, with minimal discoloration for a carbon tool steel.
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Question for the knife people
- Thread starter pownal55
- Start date
RobbW
Member
Oh, and I should add that the heat treatments on the knife makers I listed above is fantastic! All of those makers bring out the best of the steels they offer.
If push came to shove, I'd much rather have a great heat treat than a great steel. Knife makers market according to the type of steel they use, because that's what the market understands and because steel is cheaper than making a great heat treatment. Yet the heat treat is much more important than the line of steel.
Case in point: Buck uses plain-jane 420HC, a run-of the mill steel that is lackluster with other makers. Yet because they treat that 420HC with a Paul Bos heat treat, their steel performs great! And it's 420HC.
If push came to shove, I'd much rather have a great heat treat than a great steel. Knife makers market according to the type of steel they use, because that's what the market understands and because steel is cheaper than making a great heat treatment. Yet the heat treat is much more important than the line of steel.
Case in point: Buck uses plain-jane 420HC, a run-of the mill steel that is lackluster with other makers. Yet because they treat that 420HC with a Paul Bos heat treat, their steel performs great! And it's 420HC.
RobbW
Member
Most are A2, but they've started using lots of different steels, CPM3V, 4V, S35VN, M4, CPMD2, and probably others.
Made in the USA Kershaw Leek. Just the right size, and great steel lock blade.
The only thing I dislike about the Leek is it's slipperiness. I have two of them and they perform very well. I also have a Spyderco which has a very grippable handle. The Spyderco will take a very sharp edge, as will the Leek, but the Leek seems to hold it's edge longer. I wish a I had a Leek with a Spyderco handle.Made in the USA Kershaw Leek. Just the right size, and great steel lock blade.
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/HRW4936/media/IMG_1230.jpg.html
THE PILGRIM
Member
The Loveless style drop point that i mentioned is 154CM. Got it from Knives Ship Free. Some of the other online venders seem to have the older models not 154CM.
SweetMK
Member
You guys are ruining me, I thought S&W revolvers were expensive!! 
Curse you, Google, mercy, those knives look nice.
Curse you, Google, mercy, those knives look nice.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
I'm a little puzzled to hear that. Last time I looked at their website the number and variety of models also had proliferated tremendously. I got my first one when they were still being made in Bark River, MI, and there was a narrower selection but all wonderfully made. I believe Mike only added 12C27 to the line after I had bought a couple.
Sounds as if he may be pitching more to a collector market, where most sales years ago were to users.
At one point he designed and manufactured a general-purpose field knife in collaboration with Force Recon Marines, who tested it against several other knives and chose it for their use. Testing was rigorous, and one of the test Bark Rivers survived an accidental fall off a ten-story building almost completely undamaged. He added that model to the catalog for civilian sales.
THE PILGRIM
Member
I think Bark River still makes the Force Recon series. They make a dazzling number and variations of blades. I still don't know every model. They have made a bunch of prototype and limited edition knives. For example- I would like to have a Smoke Jumper. I put a want to buy ad on Knife forum and the only one I was offered was a orange handle one. I do have some orange handle switchers in my military collection, but I am not really a orange handle guy.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Pownal-
You asked a question about the Puma Hunter's Pal and got a lot of comments about other knives. That's the way this board works...
The price is not out of line, as older Pumas are becoming quite collectible. There is a Puma dealer and collector who has a nice site that the address of momentarily escapes my mind. Someone else may recall it. He would probably charge that much or more if the knife was made before about 1992, is as-new, and has the sheath, box, and literature.
I have a Hunter's Pal and had one before that I had to sell. I think it's one of the best factory-made sheath knives, ever. I would want to handle any Puma knife before buying, or at least see a dorsal or vental photo, as some have stag scales that are too thick. Most are okay.
My Hunter's Pal is an old friend and is not for sale. I do have a Trail Guide, with a basically straight five-inch blade of Pumaster (not stainless) steel, grooved on top of the blade to avoid slippage if the knife is wet or bloody. The blade is said to be of a shape popular in Sweden. If I can find the sheath, I plan to offer it at $250 plus postage and insurance, and will probably get that. My son showed the knife to a friend and he nearly gave $175, without the sheath. Genuine Puma sheaths are now pretty costly, when you can find the right one.
If I was better off financially just now, I would buy a pretty Hunter's Pal NIB with accessories for $200. They'll only get more expensive. The man whose site I metioned is writing a book about Puma and when it's published, prices will climb.
The Lauterjung family that had owned Puma from 1769 sold it in the 1990's and it has changed hands again since. The current Hunter's Pal has only two pins in the handle instead of the original three, and there have probably been other cost-cutting measures. Some Pumas are still made in Solingen; others in Spain or perhaps also in the Far East. THe German-style lockblade hunting knives like the Model 943, 959, etc. now all use the same main blade shape, probably to cut costs.
If you want to invest in or use a Puma knife and are reasonably well off, buy that Puma, if it is an older one in the condition that I mentioned, with acc. It is probably worth that now, and prices are only going to escalate, especially after that Puma book comes out. You are buying a collectible knife that is evocative of German hunting culture, if that interests you. And the Hunter's Pal is one of the best designed small hunting knives ever made. They also used to have a lot of hand work in them. That model is an ideal small game and trout knife, and will handily gut and skin a deer.
If you just want the best knife you can get for hunting and wilderness survival, look at the Fallkniven F1, S-!, and A-1. Go work the buttons at: www.fallkniven.com The models mentioned have synthetic handles that are slip-proof and durable. If you want a Micarta or leather handle, they have those. The leather handles look a lot like Randall handles, and have aluminum pommels/butt caps and stainless guards. These are in their Northern Lights (NL) line. I have an NL-2, which is exceptionally well balanced for a knife with a thick eight-inch blade. I also own the others mentioned. I have owned (and written about) a LOT of knives, inc. some custom items. Today, if I wasn't handpicking a Randall with a stainless blade, I'd buy a Fallkniven or an older Puma. These reflect my tastes. There are other good knives. I suspect the Bark River knives are excellent, although Mike Stewart has had a couple of other knife companies fail under his ownership. That may have been due to conditions beyond his control. I hope that Bark River fares better. He does know how to design good knives!
Asked which basic outdoors knife to buy today, I'd suggest the Buck Model 105 Parhfinder until you learn more about knives. You'll want to keep it when you add others. To the more sophisticated, affluent sportsman looking for a more expensive, very rugged and sharp knife with a tough, non-slip handle, go Fallkniven. I'd start with the Fallkniven S-1 Forest knife. Check out the sheath options.
Bear in mind that several Fallkniven knives have passed very rugged trials by both the US and Swedish military. At least two have US stock (NSN) numbers, to allow unit funds to buy them for aircrew use.
Few other knife companies can say as much. When my son needed a combat knife also suitable for field utility, I gave him a Fallkniven S-1 with the optional black blade. He now uses it while deer hunting and likes it so much that he got the larger A-1 as his survival knife in case the fur hits the fan and there's a need to take to the woods during a national crisis. Their Model F-1 is standard issue to Swedish military pilots. Model A-1 has sold very well to Norwegian marines and other military personnel.
A couple of members posted about Great Eastern and Canal Street knives. I have one of each, and rate them as being just about on par with the German Carl Schlieper knives. My three Schlieper knives show better workmanship where the blade grind meets the tangs, but I have seen only the two knives of the US brands. Others may average better. Older Puma stock knives are also better made. Frankly, I'd look for a Trapper or Stockman pattern from Schlieper if I was buying such a knife. If you don't want hand craftsmanship and don't mind a more satin blade finish, just seek out a genuine Schrade Uncle Henry knife, not the current Chinese-made knives sold under that brand, now out of business. (Another company bought rights to the brand name.) Schrade's King Ranch model is one of the best large stock knives ever made. Handle material is Staglon.
I hope this helps. It took me a lot of time to type. I do think that you should buy that Puma IF you will take care of it and keep the accessories and hand it down in your family. It deserves that.
NOTE: I saw some typos above, but just lack the time to proofread and correct tonight. I think you can tell what I said.
You asked a question about the Puma Hunter's Pal and got a lot of comments about other knives. That's the way this board works...
The price is not out of line, as older Pumas are becoming quite collectible. There is a Puma dealer and collector who has a nice site that the address of momentarily escapes my mind. Someone else may recall it. He would probably charge that much or more if the knife was made before about 1992, is as-new, and has the sheath, box, and literature.
I have a Hunter's Pal and had one before that I had to sell. I think it's one of the best factory-made sheath knives, ever. I would want to handle any Puma knife before buying, or at least see a dorsal or vental photo, as some have stag scales that are too thick. Most are okay.
My Hunter's Pal is an old friend and is not for sale. I do have a Trail Guide, with a basically straight five-inch blade of Pumaster (not stainless) steel, grooved on top of the blade to avoid slippage if the knife is wet or bloody. The blade is said to be of a shape popular in Sweden. If I can find the sheath, I plan to offer it at $250 plus postage and insurance, and will probably get that. My son showed the knife to a friend and he nearly gave $175, without the sheath. Genuine Puma sheaths are now pretty costly, when you can find the right one.
If I was better off financially just now, I would buy a pretty Hunter's Pal NIB with accessories for $200. They'll only get more expensive. The man whose site I metioned is writing a book about Puma and when it's published, prices will climb.
The Lauterjung family that had owned Puma from 1769 sold it in the 1990's and it has changed hands again since. The current Hunter's Pal has only two pins in the handle instead of the original three, and there have probably been other cost-cutting measures. Some Pumas are still made in Solingen; others in Spain or perhaps also in the Far East. THe German-style lockblade hunting knives like the Model 943, 959, etc. now all use the same main blade shape, probably to cut costs.
If you want to invest in or use a Puma knife and are reasonably well off, buy that Puma, if it is an older one in the condition that I mentioned, with acc. It is probably worth that now, and prices are only going to escalate, especially after that Puma book comes out. You are buying a collectible knife that is evocative of German hunting culture, if that interests you. And the Hunter's Pal is one of the best designed small hunting knives ever made. They also used to have a lot of hand work in them. That model is an ideal small game and trout knife, and will handily gut and skin a deer.
If you just want the best knife you can get for hunting and wilderness survival, look at the Fallkniven F1, S-!, and A-1. Go work the buttons at: www.fallkniven.com The models mentioned have synthetic handles that are slip-proof and durable. If you want a Micarta or leather handle, they have those. The leather handles look a lot like Randall handles, and have aluminum pommels/butt caps and stainless guards. These are in their Northern Lights (NL) line. I have an NL-2, which is exceptionally well balanced for a knife with a thick eight-inch blade. I also own the others mentioned. I have owned (and written about) a LOT of knives, inc. some custom items. Today, if I wasn't handpicking a Randall with a stainless blade, I'd buy a Fallkniven or an older Puma. These reflect my tastes. There are other good knives. I suspect the Bark River knives are excellent, although Mike Stewart has had a couple of other knife companies fail under his ownership. That may have been due to conditions beyond his control. I hope that Bark River fares better. He does know how to design good knives!
Asked which basic outdoors knife to buy today, I'd suggest the Buck Model 105 Parhfinder until you learn more about knives. You'll want to keep it when you add others. To the more sophisticated, affluent sportsman looking for a more expensive, very rugged and sharp knife with a tough, non-slip handle, go Fallkniven. I'd start with the Fallkniven S-1 Forest knife. Check out the sheath options.
Bear in mind that several Fallkniven knives have passed very rugged trials by both the US and Swedish military. At least two have US stock (NSN) numbers, to allow unit funds to buy them for aircrew use.
Few other knife companies can say as much. When my son needed a combat knife also suitable for field utility, I gave him a Fallkniven S-1 with the optional black blade. He now uses it while deer hunting and likes it so much that he got the larger A-1 as his survival knife in case the fur hits the fan and there's a need to take to the woods during a national crisis. Their Model F-1 is standard issue to Swedish military pilots. Model A-1 has sold very well to Norwegian marines and other military personnel.
A couple of members posted about Great Eastern and Canal Street knives. I have one of each, and rate them as being just about on par with the German Carl Schlieper knives. My three Schlieper knives show better workmanship where the blade grind meets the tangs, but I have seen only the two knives of the US brands. Others may average better. Older Puma stock knives are also better made. Frankly, I'd look for a Trapper or Stockman pattern from Schlieper if I was buying such a knife. If you don't want hand craftsmanship and don't mind a more satin blade finish, just seek out a genuine Schrade Uncle Henry knife, not the current Chinese-made knives sold under that brand, now out of business. (Another company bought rights to the brand name.) Schrade's King Ranch model is one of the best large stock knives ever made. Handle material is Staglon.
I hope this helps. It took me a lot of time to type. I do think that you should buy that Puma IF you will take care of it and keep the accessories and hand it down in your family. It deserves that.
NOTE: I saw some typos above, but just lack the time to proofread and correct tonight. I think you can tell what I said.
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Frank46
US Veteran
I have a Puma hunter's buddy I bought way back in 1967 when I got discharged from the navy. That is the only Puma product that I own. However do have two Spyderco stainless Mariners which came in handy when doing oil spill containment work. Today I have two benchmade a griptilian and I forget which one it is. All have given me good service over the years. Frank
Texas Star
US Veteran
Frank-
That isn't a "Hunter's Buddy", just "Buddy". Five inch Swedish blade shape, fairly flat knife with German or nickle silver bolsters? Probably a blood groove in the blade? Swedish pouch type sheath?
I don't think a whole lot of those were imported. I sold mine, as I prefer their Outdoor model, the stainless version of the Hunter's Friend. But, it's a very good knife. And the handle is longer than most, suiting it for larger hands.
If the knife has been used a lot and shows it, the cost will not approach what it would be if still boxed, unused, with the literature and box. But it's probably still worth a LOT more than you paid! I remember when several Puma sheath knives "listed" for $20 or less. I think I paid just $11 for my first Hunter's Pal. That was at a discount store, and it is surely the best knife buy I ever made.
I hand dyed the tan sheath a dark brown and gave it several coats of Kiwi polish and it was a beautiful thing, the dark brown sheath setting off the exceptional stag handle really well. Alas, my GI Education Bill check was often late, and I eventually had to sell it and other treasured items. I hope whoever has it today enjoys it and takes care of it.
Check around for prices for your Buddy. You probably don't want to sell it, but your family or insurance agent may need to know. I think when that Puma book is published, value will double in a few years for rarer models like you have.
THIS TOPIC NEEDS PICTURES OF PUMA KNIVES!
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williamlayton
Member
From my 73 years of experience--pocket knives are made to be bought, used, misplaced, lost or broken from mis-use.
Blessings
Blessings
That is so correct. The best piece of steel in the world will be a lousy knife if not given a good HT. I can make about any steel razor sharp. The big difference is now long will it stay sharp. Quality steel with a quality heat treat makes a HUGE difference.
The cost of the steel is about the same as the handle cost on a good knife.
I am a steel snob
. I started making knives about 10 years ago because I wanted a damascus knife. Now it is a retirement hobby with some income. I could make about the same per hour working at McDonalds I have spend a lot of time learning about steel and heat treat.A good knife by a good make is like buying a gun. First you pick a size suits your use. Then you pick a maker. You can get a cheap gun or a Smith. Both will fire the bullet. The Smith will do it reliably, accurately and repeatedly for a lifetime. If it has a problem they will fix it. It will be worth as much or more in 50 years as the day you got it. You can pass it down to your son. Same thing goes for a QUALITY knife.
Part of the reason I enjoy making knives is the thought that many of them will be around long after I am gone. It kinda bugs me some of them are "safe queens"
D2
Damascus
Cocked & Locked
Member
steelslaver......
Nice knives steelslaver!
Nice knives steelslaver!
wildenout
Member
I love all brands, SOG for folders. Gerber, Spydercos, and KaBar for fixed blade. Nothing will be better than a leatherman for multi-tools. I did some research on the brand you mentioned, and they look great! and I would always stick with what you know.
David LaPell
Member
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
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I like Blind Horse knives, had one of their patch knives for a few years, used it for a few things. Paid only $60 for it, but I have a thing for old steel as well, and once in a while I like to snag some used knives. I picked up a nearly mint John Rand fixed blade. I think my last new knife was a US Air Force Survival knife for my outdoor adventures.
I have been experimenting with making my own knives too, here is the first (and so far only) knife I have put together.
For all my hunting chores though, nothing beats my Uncle Henry that I bought about 12 years or so ago. Gutted and cleaned just about everything I would say.
Blind Horse patch knife
US Air Force survival knife
John Rand
I have been experimenting with making my own knives too, here is the first (and so far only) knife I have put together.
For all my hunting chores though, nothing beats my Uncle Henry that I bought about 12 years or so ago. Gutted and cleaned just about everything I would say.
Blind Horse patch knife
US Air Force survival knife
John Rand
I have a few Blind Horse Knives as well. They are very sharp, durable, and nice to look at, but not so pretty that you wont use them....
Heres their site; Blind Horse Knives
EDIT: Looks like the partners are going their separate ways with two new websites.
Heres their site; Blind Horse Knives
EDIT: Looks like the partners are going their separate ways with two new websites.
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