question for water well experts

cougar14

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Been helping the BIL get his well back up and running. His tank is old, 60's probably.Has no bladder, gets waterlogged after 2-3 days, have to drain the tank down to restore air bubble. Estimate the tank at 3 ft tall and around 20 inches diameter, threaded 1 inch hole in top w/pipe plug. Could I insert something into the tank thru this hole and makeshift a bladder?
 
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No, Lowes generally has the cheapest pressure tanks. The larger the tank the less often a pump will run so the bigger the better.

In the 60's they had bladders, his is probably holed.
 
On wells with non-bladder tanks , there should be a shrader valve on the line. The theory is; when the pump shuts off, it drains back, air is pulled into the line via the shrader valve, and creates a 'slug of air' in the line between the well and tank. Each time the well pump comes on, the air enters the tank. The tank should always have an air blanket on top of the water.
 
Yes, jury-rigging the main water supply system is definitely something you don't want to have in the same sentence together. (I like the way you think, though! McGiver has nothing over you!) Good luck.
 
I had galvanized tanks that were 120 gallon and about twice as tall. They lasted about 30-35 years. If you have a tank that lasted almost 60 years, that would be amazing! I did it without air bladders and my system would go 3 or 4 months without pumping the air up. Air is water soluble, and will be absorbed into the water, but this takes awhile. If you are loosing air pressure in a few days, there is probably a small leak somewhere! If it is a shallow well, there should be either a check valve close to the pump or a "Foot" valve at the bottom end of the well line. If these are "60" years old, they probably have erosion or mineral build up, and need replaced. There are similar check valves on a deep (submersible) well, but I don't have expierance with fixing them, Dad always call the pros on them! All pressure tanks will loose air into the water (even tanks with bladders) but not in a few days, there is a different problem somewhere! If the line from the bottom up the well has a pin hole leak, there is a bunch of digging to be done! (I had to do this on my farm house well, I put a 3" pipe as a conduit for the 1" black plastic water line, after that I could pull the whole line from in the basement-with no digging) You don't want to be digging in even a mild winter!

Ivan
 
I spent 36 years in this field of work. Everything wears out eventually. Everything. From wells to the water supply system has lifespans. Having a system for 60 years is far beyond a normal lifespan. I was not fond of bladderless tanks or conventionals as we called them. Always needed something. The only time I would install one is when a drain back system was the only option. Bladder tanks are relatively cheap and have long lives and are trouble free. There are those financially challenged people whos bladder had ruptured and have replaced just the bladders and there is a way to do this but it is usually a temporary solution. The replacement bladder assembly is way to large to be snaked into the opening you have.
 
I have 3 of those tanks in my system. When one failed several years ago, I bought a new bladder. Trust me, it's easier to put toothpaste back in the tube than replacing a bladder. You insert it through the bottom opening but the real bugger is getting the old, stiff bladder out. Not worth the effort. Buy a new tank!!!
 
I thought the Schrader valve was used to add air to the tank , or the bladder if it has one .
 
I thought the Schrader valve was used to add air to the tank , or the bladder if it has one .

It is in a bladdered system. In what Ivan is describing the schrader has a reversed spring to draw air in when it is depressured rather than keep pressurized air in.
 
My original pump system is used for lawn watering only now. The system and well is going on nearly 30 years old now. I'm into pressure switch #3 and pressure tank number 4. Four years is about all I get from a bladdered tank. Dropped $150 at Lowes last month for the most recent on. The system doesn't get a lot of use since I hooked up to city water a couple years ago.
Yes, the "tire valve" on top of the tank is for adjusting the tank pressure to the pump switch setting, typically about two PSI below the lower switch setting.
 
It is in a bladdered system. In what Ivan is describing the schrader has a reversed spring to draw air in when it is depressured rather than keep pressurized air in.
Yeah , I'm trying to figure out how you make that work . How do you reverse a spring ? You would have to pull a vacuum to draw outside air in , and it would never build any actual pressure . All you would ever have is the weight of the water pushing it . Whatever . There's a lot of things I don't know .
 
A lot of excellent advise here, just go buy a new tank, not expensive and not difficult to do the plumbing. If you get tagged to help pull a submersible well pump, that would be a great time to have to go out of town on business for a few days.
 
Been helping the BIL get his well back up and running. His tank is old, 60's probably.Has no bladder, gets waterlogged after 2-3 days, have to drain the tank down to restore air bubble. Estimate the tank at 3 ft tall and around 20 inches diameter, threaded 1 inch hole in top w/pipe plug. Could I insert something into the tank thru this hole and makeshift a bladder?

Hi, cougar14!

As evidenced by all the excellent responses to your questions provided by the esteemed and experienced Members of this fine Forum, it's clear you've come to the right place.

Their advice and opinions align closely with my travails, so please permit me to share my water well journey with you.

I purchased this house and wooded property about 30 years ago when the only available utility was electricity.

In the intervening years, natural gas, high speed internet, and a 12" water main have come to reside in my front yard (as well as several upscale suburban developments down in the valleys in front of and behind me :().

I have since availed myself of the natural gas (lower cost than electric heat and much less work than cutting, splitting, and stacking firewood) and high speed internet (good riddance to "dial-up").

I still use my water well.

It is an approx. 250' deep well located at the bottom of an old cistern with a 24" X 24" hatch.

Along with the well head, piping, and electrical service for the pump residing in the cistern, there was a galvanized pressure tank approx. 5' tall by 24" in diameter (60-70 gallons?).

The only service required was to re-pressurize the tank every 6 months or so to keep the pump from short cycling.

About 10-11 years ago, the system would not build pressure although I could hear the pump running.

I ordered a new pump and called the well company.

They pulled the 250', 1" galvanized drop and the pump to reveal one of the lowest 20' lengths of galvanized pipes had rusted through.

I had them replace the 250' of galvanized pipe with PVC along with the new pump (as long as they had it out) although the old RACO pump was still working.

I've heard RACO pumps are high quality so I retained it as a spare.

At the time, I also purchased and installed a Franklin "Pumptrol" box which electronically monitors pump operation and shuts down the pump if the well runs dry.

Everything was fine until about a year and a half ago when I lost water service.

The old galvanized pressure tank has rusted through with a small pinhole and had proceeded to fill the old cistern half way up with water! :eek:

Luckily, that Franklin "Pumptrol" protected the pump and it was still good so I went to Lowe's and bought the largest A.O. Smith bladder tank that would fit through the hatch (85 gallons), a new pressure switch, gauge, and fittings and had a "fun" time removing the old tank and installing the new (150 lb.) tank.

BTW, I got 20% off the price of the tank and parts by opening a Lowe's credit account which I promptly paid off when the bill came. :cool:

The system has worked perfectly and like others, I am more than satisfied with the care free operation.

Just in case you do not wish to go this route, my old tank had a sticker that said a "Merrill Float" ( a type of bladder for conventional, non-bladder tanks) had been installed.

When I inspected the interior of the old tank, I found no evidence of the bladder's remains.

The Merrill Company (makers and sellers of the site installed bladder) is still in business and here is a link to their website:
Air Volume Controls and Floats – Merrill Manufacturing

If it were me, I'd still go with a new bladder tank, but the option still exists for you to install a site installed bladder.

Good luck!

John
 
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