Questions on a 1917 DA 45

[wogentry]

Howdy,

I'm looking at a S&W DA 45 non- military that is offered up for sale locally. If I purchase it it will be a shooter and give my military ones a break from shooting. But the revolver has a few anomalies that I hoped to get some opinions on. Pictures are from the seller and they aren't that close up.

The serial on the butt is 29646. It does not match the barrel flat and the seller hasn't indicated if there is a number on the cylinder. Barrel flat number (3473)does not match the butt number. Instead it appears to match the assembly number on the yoke. So I believe it has been re-barreled at some point.

Speaking of the barrel...it has " SMITH & WESSON" on the left side and "S&W DA 45" on the right. Much later era than the frame, correct?

The frame does not have "Made in the USA" on it, coupled with the low serial number that would indicate pre-1920 manufacture....but the side plate has the large trademark symbol.

I get the impression the gun has been refinished due to the color of the hammer and trigger and pins look dished a bit to me.

So basically its an old frame built up with newer parts and possibly re-blued. And obviously the grips don't match. I know S&W cleaned house as late as the 40s using old frames, parts but I don't think this is factory original. Opinions?

 

[Aircrewman]

I agree with you. Looks like a parts assembly, which, to me, is a perfectly good deal if everything is assembled correctly. Perhaps even the side plate is "assembled" as it has the trademark stamp. The re-finish looks good from the photos.... Can't see enough in the photos to form an opinion. I would think that as long as the "dishing" isn't too bad, it will be ok.

If the price is right, I would say get it. Looks like the potential for a "good/great shooter"
is there...

 

[BUFF]

The serial number should have six digits, not five, if it's originally a commercial gun, and if it's lower than six digits, it should be a U.S. Army gun and have U.S. Army on the butt, as the 1917's started with serial number 1 and ran in their own series. The Army's guns went up to about 163,476.

Yes, your barrel and sideplate are commercial, the Army's had no S&W logo or trademark on them, and neither did the barrels. The Army barrels said "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the bottom, "S.& W. D.A. 45" on the left side of the barrel and nothing on the right side.

Your gun is a mystery to me.

 

[old bear]

wogentry, sir you know more about the gun than I do. But from your description it sounds like a parts gun. It may be a great shooter/truck gun, but nothing more. If the price is right and you need a kick around gun go for it.

 

[wogentry]

The serial number should have six digits, not five, if it's originally a commercial gun, and if it's lower than six digits, it should be a U.S. Army gun and have U.S. Army on the butt, as the 1917's started with serial number 1 and ran in their own series. The Army's guns went up to about 163,476.

Yes, your barrel and sideplate are commercial, the Army's had no S&W logo or trademark on them, and neither did the barrels. The Army barrels said "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" on the bottom, "S.& W. D.A. 45" on the left side of the barrel and nothing on the right side.

Your gun is a mystery to me.

That's what I was thinking too...but in the SCSW on page 163 it mentions that "The S&W trademark was not stamped on military frames but is observed on commercial variations. Serial number range 1-209791 produced c. 1917-1946" So I reckoned that they ran a concurrent serial number range for commercial models. Military models ran 1-169959. I own a military model #1489XX

 

[wogentry]

But from your description it sounds like a parts gun. It may be a great shooter/truck gun, but nothing more. If the price is right and you need a kick around gun go for it.

That's kinda what I was thinking....was hoping to figure out what era all the parts came from....and to learn more about these models.....the way the barrel is stamped interests me.

 

[BUFF]

Commercial guns continued in the same serial number sequence as the Army's guns. I have commercial number 181722 shipped in December, 1930, and 1937/Brazilian number 201,735. The Brazilians went up to 209,791. There was a post-WWII production, continuing the series to 210,782. This is from Roy Jinks' book, THE HISTORY OF SMITH & WESSON.

The guns were basically the same except for markings and stocks. The Army's had smooth walnut service stocks, commercials had checkered walnut service stocks and the Brazilians could have either. They all shipped with lanyard swivels, which would be another thing for you to check. The hole for the swivel was often plugged when people didn't want it but the plugged hole is practically always visible.

 

[wogentry]

hmmm this one has the serial centered on the butt no sign of a lanyard....Interesting...Appreciate the insight....

 

[Jack Flash]

The hammer and trigger look blued to me. If this is true, that is a tell-tale sign of a re-blue. I can't say if the screws look dished or not. Otherwise, the bluing looks reasonably good.

The target stocks are worth something in their own right, so you could part them out to recoup some cash. As you said, they aren't original to the revolver anyways.

If it functions properly it would be a great shooter. I would not want to pay more than $600 at most for it, but you will need to decide for yourself.

 

[deyomatic]

Any chance the frame was originally a 45 Colt (whatever model that would make it, 1909?) and someone along the way put 45 acp pieces on it? How does that story work with the serial number and other info given?

 

[KEN L]

Depending on the price, it looks like it would make a great shooter. The grips alone are probably worth $100 - $125.

 

[Kinman]

I like it! You got yourself a great project/shooter if the price is right. I picked up a nicely refinished Brazilian and had it cut down to 4" with a nice Baughman style front sight, installed a Wondersight and I spend more time shooting it than any other revolver or pistol I own, I'm into it less than $500. I carry it in my shooting bag, its with me every time I go to the range.

 

[handejector]

hmmm this one has the serial centered on the butt no sign of a lanyard....Interesting...Appreciate the insight....

In the pic without the grips, there appears to be a hole for the swivel retaining pin. Look halfway between the mainspring and the grip pin.
So, has a swivel hole been plugged and the number restamped?

The number makes no sense unless that is a 455-2nd frame.

I would LEAVE this one layin.

 

[wogentry]

In the pic without the grips, there appears to be a hole for the swivel retaining pin. Look halfway between the mainspring and the grip pin.
So, has a swivel hole been plugged and the number restamped?

The number makes no sense unless that is a 455-2nd frame.

I would LEAVE this one layin.

Thanks for your response! I noticed that too and was comparing serial number placement/font to some of my other revolvers. So far I haven't actually held this one in my hand but I think I am going to let this one pass. Besides found sweet deals on a Highway Patrolman (pre-28) and a 28-2 with much less questionable features!

Thanks for everybody's response.