Range day with the 617, 5-10-25 update, Now I'm impressed.

[Harv 24]

So I take it out and zero.

Here is where the rear sight ended up to get it zered at 15 yds. and its bottomed out trying to get a center aim hold. plus the sight blade wiggles back and forth.

and look at the cylinder rachets after less than a few hundred rds. Several are chewed up. Do they even heat treat their components.??

It's like no one cares about their product anymore. Did anyone even bother to check the zero before it left the factory??? Checking Ellie May on 2nd shift to see if she can actually put on a barrel and get it straight.

I have to say, I'm less than impressed with S&W at this point.

To those who told me to look for an older used gun, you may have been right.Grrrrrrr.

 

[-BTM-]

Is the barrel canted?

 

[Yendor357]

Very few of my handguns have the rear sight centered. That’s why they put those little screws in rear sights.

Yeah, the ratchet looks a little rough, but did you buy it to look at the ratchet?

How does it shoot? That’s what really matters.

 

[iPac]

To those who told me to look for an older used gun, you may have been right.Grrrrrrr.

If I was in the market, I would definitely buy vintage over modern production. Unless it was something they absolutely only make now & not back in the day when pride of manufacture existed.

However, perhaps take a look at what Colt is currently doing right now with their new snake gun production. I'm thoroughly surprised that they have gone as far as they have with all their current offerings. Their action design is sound, albeit not the original V spring bank vault lockup of the original design, but pretty nice for the modern production price.

Maybe sell this piece & check out their King Cobra target 22. If I was in the market for a new 22 revolver, that's the way I would go.

If that ratchet "chewing" is from you just shooting a few hundred rounds, I wouldn't expect it to hold up for all that long. It will be out of time & problem bound quickly. And that's crazy the rear sights need to be that extreme to get ammo on target. I'd be having a talk with S&W about that ratchet at the very least. Something is not quite right with that, as ratchets shouldn't get "chewed" up at all in a proper functioning revolver.

 

[bobsguns]

Does Smith actually make their cylinders or do they sub them out? Looks like either sub-par metal or wasn't heat treated properly.

I have a fairly new 617 10-shot but don't have that many rds through it. I need to check mine, I guess.

 

[Harv 24]

Very few of my handguns have the rear sight centered. That’s why they put those little screws in rear sights.

Yeah, the ratchet looks a little rough, but did you buy it to look at the ratchet?

How does it shoot? That’s what really matters.

Perhaps your lack of concern is what is allowing these issues to creep into modern day manufacturing.

If you think this is acceptable for a $970 pistol, I don't. and I will be contacting S&W and make them make this right.

 

[Harv 24]

Does Smith actually make their cylinders or do they sub them out? Looks like either sub-par metal or wasn't heat treated properly.

I have a fairly new 617 10-shot but don't have that many rds through it. I need to check mine, I guess.

Please take a look, I would be curious to see what yours look like. I just contacted S&W, we'll see.

 

[raljr1]

I spent about 30 minutes talking with a shop owner who told me that all of his rear sights are like that. Apparently he is cross dominant shoots right handed with his left eye and all of his sights end up like that for that reason. He said that Sig built him a gun that centered the rear sight by adjusting the slide somehow. I can't speak to the ratchets.

 

[6string]

Is your sighting in process “off hand” or using a benchrest?
Do you know any experienced pistol shooters who you can have try out the gun for comparison?

Here’s a couple anecdotes based on my range officer experience. Please don’t take them personally. They are intended for the broader readership here.

1)-Very commonly, I see guys shooting and they lose count of their shots, running the gun empty.
They go to take (what they think is) their last shot.
Oops!!
I see their muzzle skew off in some odd direction because they jerked the trigger and flinched.
While shooting live ammo, the recoil conceals the flaw in their technique.

2)-Another thing I very commonly see, mostly with guys shooting close range targets, is a misperception of their marksmanship capabilities. (My definition of close range is any pistol shooting less than 25 yds).
While shooting their “Bad Guy” target at 7 yards, they are more than pleased that the majority of their shots are in the “vitals” zone.
Meanwhile, observing the berm 50 yards downrange, I am seeing bullet impacts over an area of 50-100 feet or more. Many shots don’t even directly hit the berm. They ricochet off the ground and either secondary impact the berm or, on occasion, clear the berm.
At that point, I will intervene from a safety standpoint.

Remember, bullet impact deviation in terms of windage or elevation increases with distance. That 3” group you shot at 10 yards doesn’t seem so good (and it’s not!) when you realize that’s equivalent to almost one and a half feet at 50 yards!

3)-Lighting can also have a huge impact.
I shoot mostly outdoors. Using Olympic-level competition pistols with precision micrometer sights, I have observed my own group centers change on regulation targets depending on time of day, the position of the sun, the amount of cloud cover, etc.
So, obviously optical perception has an effect.

Again, I hope nobody takes offense at my observations.
The OP’s gun may very well be defective. But, without further information, we cannot overlook the potential for human error.

In a way, I feel bad for the guys in customer service. I’m sure there are legitimate gripes for failures in QC. But, I bet they hear a lot of grousing from guys that just can’t shoot. The best they can do is offer to have the gun sent back for inspection.
If it passes, it gets sent back with a note that it falls within spec.
I’m sure that can anger some customers.
It would be ideal if the gun could be fired in a machine rest at the factory to verify accuracy and sighting. But, that’s another story….

 

[chief38]

There isn't much to say on a positive note. S&W just keeps lowering the bar. I've posted here many times that most people who know how to properly check out a revolver are way better off buying a vintage S&W from around 1994 and earlier. The key to that is once again knowing what to look for and how to asses a used gun. If it isn't up to muster, walk away and keep looking - good ones are out here as the Company produced plenty of great revolvers for many years. For those new to S&W revolvers and who are not privy to how a proper check out should be done, bring an experienced S&W Guy with you!

S&W vintage revolvers that are in good condition are IMHO some of the finest revolvers ever built but they are getting older now. That is why being picky, discerning and knowledgable is a must when buying them. Yes, there are many great ones still available but do not "bargain hunt"! Most items in life are priced accordingly. We do not want you read about another purchase disaster by someone who thought he was saving a few bucks.

I blame the new CEO and management at the current S&W for destroying what the old Company was all about, their former great quality, their perfected designs, etc. They are NOT the S&W I (and most here ) grew up with. Those are just the plain, hard facts! Why they are incapable in getting their act together like Colt, Ruger, and many other who also fell down the worm hole for some time is beyond my comprehension.

If you own other S&W revolvers that are known good quality and in good repair, take note of the rear sight position. Is is close to center? Look to see of the 617's barrel is screwed on tightly and if it is lined up and centered. The sight blade sometimes will have a minuscule amount of play so it can be adjusted freely, but it should not wobble back and forth - consistency and stability is key to accuracy. Yes, the ratchets are kind of rough, however if the revolver times correctly and locks up tightly, I'd suggest leaving well enough alone. You don't want perfectly looking ratchets that are not cut right. I guess you have little choice other than to send it back for repair -and pray they actually fix it properly.

I long for the day I was able to just walk into any LGS and walk out with an issue free, perfectly made S&W revolver - did that many many times when I was younger. Of all the S&W's I purchased new, I had exactly ONE lemon that the Company said was a defective frame, couldn't be fixed and they replaced it on the spot by destroying mine and stamping my serial number on a brand new gun. That took about 3 hours when I was actually standing in the Factory building in front of the Shop's Foreman in the early 1980's. Went home with a gem (2" blued, RB, M10) that I foolishly sold a few years later but that is another story.

 

[413Maxwedge]

I bought a new 617-6 last October and am similarly disappointed. I didn't have any trouble sighting it in, but the blade wiggles and rocks back and forth, the finish is poor and uneven, and the patridge sight had a tall sharp spot on one side that I needed to file down. I regret not getting another 686 for the same money.

*on a separate note I am cross dominant (R hand, L eye) and my blades are pretty centered when adjusted.

 

[ladder13]

The new S&W revolvers are a big help in keeping me from upsizing.

 

[sandog]

This thread has helped me to fix the single issue I have had with my 617-6, it was hard to open the cylinder.
But only when the cylinder was positioned at 3 chambers.
I would rotate the cylinder one chamber at a time while opening and closing the cylinder, and it appeared to only be sticky at those three chambers.

On a used 686 I bought, the cylinder was hard to open, but it wasn't chamber specific, it was hard to pen no matter how the cylinder was turned. A new (longer) center pin fixed that issue.

I hadn't thought of looking closely at the 617's ratchets, but today after seeing the OP's pic I thought I'd check my ratchets.
None of them were chewed up like the OP's, but three of them had a distinct line across the middle of the top flat that felt like a burr.
I hit the burrs with a piece of 600 grit paper and lubed the ratchets lightly with some Wilson Ultima lube.
Now the cylinder opens at all positions easily.

My sight is slightly to the left, but not as much as the OP's rear sight.
My barrel doesn't appear to be canted, ribs on the sight and the ribs on the barrel line up, and the same amount of "hangover" on each side where the barrel meets the frame.

 

[chief38]

The new S&W revolvers are a big help in keeping me from upsizing.

Then do not look at Colt's new line up!

 

[Drm50]

I’ve had 3 617s I got on trades. All 3 were like new, two 4” and a 6”. I shot them just as proofed that they function. Busted a box of bulk on plink type targets on creek bank. They all three hit what I was shooting at, I would say misses were me. I can’t abide stainless so they went into trade pile. I’m sure any assembly line product is going to come up with a lemon now and again, same way with a cherry. The bulk will be somewhere in between
that’s the world today.

 

[kelljor]

So far I have been lucky with Smith wheelies. But I only bought one new, the rest were used and looked like they weren't fired much, but they were fired. Only problem I have ever had was with a NIB Bersa 380cc; the pin holding the extractor in kept backing out. they have it now; they tell me they are replacing the whole gun so there must have been a prob with the drilling of the hole in the frame (FYI I also have one other and have had another of the same model without any probs). The new smith is a 3" 60, the rear sight doesn't click when adjusting the elevation but they are sending me a new rear sight.

 

[Nick B]

Smith replaced two of my 617’s . One a no dash and the other the current dash number. Frames out of spec . Couldn’t even hit the black at 10 yards .

 

[ladder13]

Then do not look at Colt's new line up!

I already have bought 2.5, 3, and 4.2 stainless Pythons. Waiting on a blue 2.5.

 

[chief38]

This thread has helped me to fix the single issue I have had with my 617-6, it was hard to open the cylinder.
But only when the cylinder was positioned at 3 chambers.
I would rotate the cylinder one chamber at a time while opening and closing the cylinder, and it appeared to only be sticky at those three chambers.

On a used 686 I bought, the cylinder was hard to open, but it wasn't chamber specific, it was hard to pen no matter how the cylinder was turned. A new (longer) center pin fixed that issue.

I hadn't thought of looking closely at the 617's ratchets, but today after seeing the OP's pic I thought I'd check my ratchets.
None of them were chewed up like the OP's, but three of them had a distinct line across the middle of the top flat that felt like a burr.
I hit the burrs with a piece of 600 grit paper and lubed the ratchets lightly with some Wilson Ultima lube.
Now the cylinder opens at all positions easily.

My sight is slightly to the left, but not as much as the OP's rear sight.
My barrel doesn't appear to be canted, ribs on the sight and the ribs on the barrel line up, and the same amount of "hangover" on each side where the barrel meets the frame.

Sometimes sanding or polishing the ratchets can change lock up. Hope you did not do that on yours and only removed burrs.

As far as the sight blade is concerned, as long as you can zero the sights to hit POA=POI and it remains stable, you are good to go. They were designed to be adjusted to an individuals vision and usually people see differently when it comes to open gun sights.

The rear sight blade needs a hair to be able to move freely and there needs to be a very slight amount of play, but it should not wobble front to back or side to side. If it does the gun will never be a tack driver or live up to its potential as the sights are constantly moving around. Some shooters might not notice this - because many shooters I see at the range are not really great shots so they might not even notice.

 

[ralph7]

Very few of my handguns have the rear sight centered. That’s why they put those little screws in rear sights.

Yeah, the ratchet looks a little rough, but did you buy it to look at the ratchet?

How does it shoot? That’s what really matters.

Thing that is scary here is that you are seemingly serious.
Those ratchets are beyond terrible.