REAL 1911 pistols!

[PALADIN85020]

First off, let me apologize for the quality of these photographs. I took them back in 2002 for an article in the 2003 Gun Digest with a film camera, and these are copies of the printed photos. At any rate, I wanted to show you what REAL 1911 pistols look like - the daddies and granddaddies of what has arguably become the most popular and copied pistol in the world. These are the real McCoys, genuine and unaltered G.I. 1911 and 1911A1 pistols.

First, the gun that started it all. This is a Colt 1911:

Next, a 1911 made by Remington-UMC:

Springfield Armory got into the act during WWI, and made a number of 1911 pistols. This is one of those:

This is a closeup of the markings on an ultra-rare 1911. These were Colt frames, reworked using slides made by the A.J. Savage Company. Savage didn't get full manufacture going before WWI ended, but made slides, and the government used them for reworks after the war - this particular pistol bears the mark "AA" for the Augusta (GA) Arsenal.

This is a Colt 1911A1:

Here's a 1911A1 made by the Ithaca Gun Company:

Remington Rand made more 1911A1s during WWII than any other maker:

This is a 1911A1 made by the Union Switch and Signal company in Swissvale, PA. It used a "DuLite" finish rather than parkerizing. These are getting increasingly scarce, particularly in this condition.

Sorry that I can't provide a photo of a 1911A1 made by the Singer Sewing Machine Company - only 500 were made, most of them going to the Army Air Corps. Not many survived intact from the War. I did have the opportunity to bid on one at one point, but I didn't want to take out a second mortgage on my home. Actually, I DID want to do that, but my wife put her foot down on the idea.

I collected most of these pistols back in the 1970s and 1980s; they were semi-reasonable to purchase back then, and I tried to get at least one of each main maker. Today the values on these have escalated to the point where a similar collection would be priced out of sight.

At any rate, hope you enjoy the pics!

John

 

[tops]

Thanks for the pictures. Makes me wish I could have afforded to keep all I have owned. I do have a Colt commerical I bought new in 1967 and it is still in nice shape. Larry

 

[Xfuzz]

Neat old 1911's

 

[A10]

Thanks Paladin, what great guns!

 

[Cpt. Obvious]

Great to see em! Love me some 1911s...

 

[Snakeshift]

That has to be one of the best USGI 1911 collections I've seen! Realllly Jealous.

 

[Straightshooter2]

First of all, don't apologize for the pics. With all the film cameras I have, I LOVE having grain in pictures. Second, thanks for posting those! Nothing like the real thing when it comes to a 1911. Now what to do about the drool seeping into the keyboard of my laptop...sizzle.

CW

 

[Mr Pokeyman]

About 1968 or 69 I bought a Remington Rand 1911 with the Army flap holster for the princely sum of $50.00 (I made $3 an hour). I had no idea what I had then so I garbaged that scratched up old holster and the parkerized finish was so ugly that I had the gun chrome finished. A few years later I proudly showed it to a knowledgeable gun collector. He practically cried tears-after he told my what an idiotic thing I had done. There was no internet then to learn from. I sold it after that as I could no longer stand to look at it. I have always regretted that and seeing that old warrior gun just brought it back. I hope to find another one someday, I will treat it like it deserves.

 

[pawncop]

That is so cool. Thank you for the photos.

 

[Gasman1972]

Excellent post! Wouldn't we all love a Singer though....

You have an amazing collection.

 

[Lee Barner]

palidin, thanks for sharing those. only 1911 i have is a Colt. have a few A1s but never found the other two 1911s (that i could afford). lee

 

[sigp220.45]

My one and only 1911 - the slide says Ithaca, the frame numbers to a Remington Rand. At some point it was reparked and put away. Scorned by collectors, but much loved by me:

 

[Bat Guano]

The first 1911 I ever shot was a borrowed DCM Remington Rand in 1959. A year later my folks bought it from the then owner for $25 and put it under the tree for me for Christmas, 1960. Until I started reloading I bought steel cased corrosive EC 43 hardball ammo for $2 a box.

We've been together 50 years now, joined at the hip you might say.

 

[7tenz]

My one and only 1911 - the slide says Ithaca, the frame numbers to a Remington Rand. At some point it was reparked and put away. Scorned by collectors, but much loved by me:

Collectors, schmollectors. Looks good to me. I'd be proud to have it.

Thanks for the pics, John. Sweet.

 

[crazyphil]

I had a student at the range about 15 years ago or so who had a Singer
1911. I don't think he appreciated, at the time, what he had. But then
neither did I. I remember holding and fondling it.
That long ago, and many students, I can't even remember who it was,
or I would contact him. What is a Singer, in decent condition, worth
these days?

 

[Echo40]

It's nice to see many different examples of wartime 1911s represented here. It's all too often that you'll see folks who only consider the 1911s manufactured by Colt as classic examples of wartime 1911s.

Personally, I have never agreed with the assertion that, "Only 1911s in their original configuration manufactured by Colt during this specific period on time are real 1911s!" especially when pretty much right from the beginning 1911s were being produced by several different manufacturers to exact specifications in order to meet the demand by the US Army to arm the troops. It's a textbook example of the "No true Scotsman" falacy.

I feel that it's disrespectful to the memory of the troops who fought and died to protect this great nation by nitpicking which version of the sidearm they carried was a "REAL 1911" as if some of the other 1911s made by Springfield Armory, Remington-Rand, Union Switch and Signal, Auto Ordnance, or any other such companies who produced 1911s for the US Army are any less special.

Frankly, the only 1911s which aren't "REAL 1911s" are counterfeits or knockoffs made by Khyber Pass and the like. Classic 1911s should be designated as just that, classics, originals, or wartime 1911s, not "REAL 1911s" as if all 1911s manufactured since the war according to the same blueprints are somehow "Fake 1911s" or something like that.

 

[billwill]

Around 2000, a local company had a collection in and for sale that had 1911's made by all of the contact manufactures for sale. I still remember looking close and hard at them.

If I had only been a forward thinking guy back then!

 

[arjay]

I had a student at the range about 15 years ago or so who had a Singer
1911. I don't think he appreciated, at the time, what he had. But then
neither did I. I remember holding and fondling it.
That long ago, and many students, I can't even remember who it was,
or I would contact him. What is a Singer, in decent condition, worth
these days?

One with a mismatched mag recently sold for $80k+ and another with a singer mag sold for over 100k (I think it was 120 or so)

 

[bigggbbruce]

Around 2000, a local company had a collection in and for sale that had 1911's made by all of the contact manufactures for sale. I still remember looking close and hard at them.

If I had only been a forward thinking guy back then!

When I was 15, my Godfathers son was killed in Vietnam.

He offered to sell me his car $4000.. A '63 Split window Corvette.. I didn't have any money, and my dad wasn't buying me a Corvette..

If we only knew then...

 

[ColbyBruce]

Rather than buy these myself, I called my brother.

The Garand is a 1942 Springfield receiver with a 1965 Springfield barrel and mostly IH trigger group. $107.00

The 1911 was AA rebuilt in the 1940's, Colt slide with a Remington frame, 1913 and 1915 parts but I don't remember which piece is which year. $87.00

 

[Kurusu]

My one and only 1911 - the slide says Ithaca, the frame numbers to a Remington Rand. At some point it was reparked and put away. Scorned by collectors, but much loved by me:

Mine did't get reparked. Also a Ithaca slide and a Remington frame.

 

[Texas Star]

The first 1911 I ever shot was a borrowed DCM Remington Rand in 1959. A year later my folks bought it from the then owner for $25 and put it under the tree for me for Christmas, 1960. Until I started reloading I bought steel cased corrosive EC 43 hardball ammo for $2 a box.

We've been together 50 years now, joined at the hip you might say.

Gun writer Jeff Cooper, a retired Marine officer, warned me to oil those steel cases if I had to fire any. Said they were okay in SMG's, but tended to shear the extractor hooks on auto pistols. Of course, they should work okay in M-1917 revolvers and other .45 ACP revolvers.

Just a warning to anyone who may not know this. I avoid corrosive primed ammo, anyway.

 

[Texas Star]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfOBDgafJYE&t=16s[/ame]

Katharina Vikor is a Norwegian lass who does quite good gun videos, sort of ala Hickock 45.

Here, she compares the Norwegian M-1914 (made in 1928) with a Colt M-1911A-1 air dropped to Norwegian resistance fighters in 1943.

Cut her some slack. Her English is good, although she has to think a little to get some words right, and she's just 17. But she's hunted not just in Norway, but in South Africa. Her gun videos are very enjoyable. I especially like this one and one on the .450 Martini-Henry rifle.

Are Norwegian M-1914's also M-1911's? Basically, and were made under Colt license. But the slide stop has a lower shelf, to accomodate smaller hands better.

 

[GKC]

This may be something that everyone already knows, but I didn't for a while...granted I am slower than most...in any case, the Springfield company that made those wonderful old 1911s is not the Springfield company of today (which is based in Brazil.) I sure would love to have one of the original Springfields, or ANY of the original 1911s, but that ain't happening. Just have to enjoy my SR1911 CMD and it's real enough for me.

 

[Texas Star]

This may be something that everyone already knows, but I didn't for a while...granted I am slower than most...in any case, the Springfield company that made those wonderful old 1911s is not the Springfield company of today (which is based in Brazil.) I sure would love to have one of the original Springfields, or ANY of the original 1911s, but that ain't happening. Just have to enjoy my SR1911 CMD and it's real enough for me.

The original wasn't a "company." It was a US arsenal, government operated in Springfield, MA . I think it was closed for reasons that I probably can't discuss here. (Political.)

The current Springfield Armory uses Brazilian parts from Itajuba Arsenal (Imbel) but is a US firm in IL.

 

[jsfricks]

Here's my all original/correct 1943 1911A1 Ithaca.

 

[Kurusu]

YouTube

Katharina Vikor is a Norwegian lass who does quite good gun videos, sort of ala Hickock 45.

Here, she compares the Norwegian M-1914 (made in 1928) with a Colt M-1911A-1 air dropped to Norwegian resistance fighters in 1943.

Cut her some slack. Her English is good, although she has to think a little to get some words right, and she's just 17. But she's hunted not just in Norway, but in South Africa. Her gun videos are very enjoyable. I especially like this one and one on the .450 Martini-Henry rifle.

Are Norwegian M-1914's also M-1911's? Basically, and were made under Colt license. But the slide stop has a lower shelf, to accomodate smaller hands better .

I understand that was made to better accomodate heavy winter gloves. Norwegians aren't exactly known for their small hands.

 

[PALADIN85020]

Actually, my collection of U.S. issue .45 handguns includes more than 1911s and 1911A1s. For example, the 1909 Colt revolver, which fired .45 Colt cartridges or the GI .45 cartridges which had slightly wider rims. Also, there is a very rare Liberator pistol, which was provided to partisan groups during WW II - crude, single shot, but it could kill. The newer Mark 23 SOCOM pistol is also included, which is available to our special forces. This photo appeared as part of my article on U.S. issue .45s of the 20th Century. It was in the 2003 issue of Gun Digest, and it won the John Amber award that year - a photo of me was featured in the 2004 issue. I acquired a good portion of these handguns back in the 60s and 70s, when the prices were not so astronomical. Today, these guns are well secured in a large bank safe deposit box.

John

 

[sigp220.45]

Wow, a blast from the past! I actually traded off my GI 1911 from that 2012 post, but I hope the CMP gods will favor me with another one in a month or two.

 

[tndrfttom]

I really like that Springfield Armory M1911 allot. In about 1970 I had a choice of either a heavily-used Springfield 1911 or a 95% Remington Rand 1911A1 with British proofs for $100 (I couldn't afford both). Naturally I took the near-new Remington Rand 1911A1 – and naturally I traded off a few months later!

I got an A.J. Savage/Colt 1911 Augusta Arsenal rework by accident as part of a trade. It had a badly corroded barrel and looks like it has been reparkerized more than once. I didn't think much of it until I looked it up in Clawson's book and saw it was a desirable variation.

The search for an affordable Springfield Armory 1911 continues.

A couple of years ago I was in the right place with the right about of cash and scored a really nice 1918 manufacture Colt M1911 with holster 2-tone magazines, etc. That one is a keeper.