reloading black powder cases

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ac4142

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i am a complete novice in shooting an 1886 colt lightning 38 DA. i have gotten help from many friendly people on this forum, yet i am so ignorant about the subject that i am still confused as to what to do. a member suggested that i start a new thread about the subject so i will take his advice. i have an excellent mechanical condition black powder model 1877 lightning. i have a lee hand loader for 38 sp and i have 38sp brass. i also have small pistol primers. i know nothing about black powder or how it works. i just want to plink with this gun around the house and am not concerned about the best accuracy. for a blockhead like me, could some people help me again on the single best (if possible) way to: A. fill the case with how much black powder (fffg granular hodgon?) and B.the most easily available bullet (if any) to use. power is not a concern. just fun shooting the gun. thanks again to those of you who have helped already and to any others who might try!
 
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thanks a lot smsgt, a gunsmith just told me i should check a list of loads using smokeless in this old black powder gun cartridge. when i asked him for a chart he couldn't tell me. i guess i'll contact hogdon too. don't want to blow the gun up (or me).
 
Hodgdon #23 manual on page 289 shows these loads:

38 short colt, 130 lead, FFFg 15 @ 705 MV
38 Long colt, 150 lead, FFFg 18 @ 770 MV

They also have loads for the "Pyrodex" black powder substitute*.

Good luck with your findings.
 
The main thing to remember is that black powder cartridges need to be full.No air space! Id talk to a gunsmith with black powder experience first,before loading it up.
 
Get a book or two, check the loads on line at Hodgdon if they are available and wash the cases ASAP or they will get really corroded.
 
FWIW, I would recommend you shoot black powder. PLEASE don't shoot Pyrodex in that fine revolver... I shoot a lot of muzzleloaders, and every one I have ever seen that has had Pyrodex used in it looked like the inside of the barrel had been sandblasted.

There are those that say black is hard to clean up, but I will say this: a can of Ballistol mixed /50 with tap water will make very short work of cleaning up black powder residue.
 
For just plinking, you might consider using round balls instead of bullets. The space problem can be solved by seating the ball against the powder in the case. About like muzzle loading. Gunslinger
 
I am not a black powder shooter but I would say that if it were me, I'd concentrate on finding a safe smokeless powder load for the gun. That would save you the worry of corrosion issues and of accidental detonation while loading (black powder is not a good mix with multi stage presses).
But if you just want the old time experience of shooting black powder, just be careful and do all the necessary steps.
 
Something else to keep in my is that the 38 Short Colt and 38 Long Colt have case lengths markedly different than the 38 special. Because of this I would be shocked if you can actually get an unmodified 38 special case to chamber in your Colt Lightning. You really need to do some checking to determine exactly which 38 caliber cartridge your revolver is chambered for.
 
The older revolvers in .38 Long Colt had bored-through chambers, i.e., a constant diameter with no shoulder. Therefore, a .38 Special case can be fully inserted. Also, the older .38 LC revolvers used ammunition with a heeled bullet of about .375" diameter. Therefore, the bore was substantially larger in diameter than the "Normal" .357-.358". The answer is to re-load using hollow base soft lead full wadcutter bullets to take advantage of the Minie Ball expanding effect to fully fill the bore diameter.

If in fact your Colt will fully chamber .38 Special cases, by all means use them with the 148 grain hollow base wadcutter bullets. Minimum starting loads given in reloading manuals for faster-burning powders such as Bullseye, Red Dot, AA #2, Clays, etc. will be perfectly safe. A typical starter load will be 2.8 grains of Bullseye or Red Dot. And you are on your way. BE SURE TO USE GREAT CAUTION TO PREVENT DOUBLE CHARGING!!!

I never recommend using black powder or Pyrodex in anything other than muzzle loading rifles or Cap & Ball revolvers. It's far too messy, and is absolutely unnecessary. Light smokeless loads will not cause any damage. Do not believe anyone who has a contrary opinion - ask them to prove it. Remember, smokeless powder was factory loaded in most of the old black powder handgun cartridges from about 1896 onward.
 
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thanks a lot fellows for your great help and interest, dwalt, i like what you have to say and will try a light load of smokeless!
 
Sounds to me like you need some "Reloading 101". Basic reloading techniques can be found in The ABCs of Reloading. I would be extra careful with an antique and heed DWalt's advise and get the gun checked out by a competent gunsmith (so you'll know if your 38 Long Colt has been modified).
 
thanks 11e40. i feel like an idiot not knowing if my lightning is even chambered for the 38 long colt cartridge. i just assumed it was. are all colt 38 black powder DA revolvers chambered for the 38 long colt?
 
ac4142 said:
thanks 11e40. i feel like an idiot not knowing if my lightning is even chambered for the 38 long colt cartridge. i just assumed it was. are all colt 38 black powder DA revolvers chambered for the 38 long colt?
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The .38 LC dates from 1875. The Colt Lightning was chambered for it, as were the Colt New Line revolvers and all of the earlier Colt swing-out cylinder revolvers starting with the Navy Model in 1889. There were also some (few) Colt SAA and Bisley Model revolvers chambered in .38 LC. Starting about 1903, Colt went to a slightly smaller .357" bore diameter in its .38 LC-chambered revolvers. Prior to that, the bore diameter is usually given as .362-.363". By that time, the .38 LC cartridge was being loaded with a .357 diameter inside lubricated soft lead bullet with a hollow base cavity to allow bullet expansion for use in the old larger bore diameter revolvers (The .41 Long Colt cartridge also had a hollow based bullet for the same reason). I don't believe S&W ever made any revolvers chambered specifically in .38 LC, but of course any .38 Special chamber could also accommodate the .38 LC. And the early S&W barrels were marked ".38 S&W Special and U. S. Service CTG," to indicate either cartridge could be used. I think the few very early S&W Military contract revolvers produced were chambered in .38 Special but were marked as being chambered for the .38 Service Cartridge, or something similar.

One comment about the Lightning. It had a reputation for being fragile and delicate, and getting out of order easily. If it were mine, I probably wouldn't shoot it, as if anything does go wrong, you probably will never be able to get it fixed.
 
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