Reloading Coated/Plated Bullets for a Model 52-2

[Walter Rego]

My local indoor range no longer allows lead bullets other than rimfires. All centerfire ammo has to be jacketed, coated or plated. JHP's and JSP's are OK.

I have a good supply of factory 148 grain full wadcutter target grade ammo for my Model 52-2, S&W pre-Model 14 and Colt Officers Model Match but those loads are verboten at that range now. I understand that one should just go ahead and use regular published data for coated and plated bullets but am most interested in duplicating the old classic 148 gr. DEWC swaged bullets with 2.7 grains of Bullseye loads for my Model 52-2.

I have a supply of Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and 231 powders among others. Can anyone suggest a good supplier of coated or plated full wadcutter bullets for flush seating and a load for them that will ensure good functioning in my Model 52-2 ?

 

[colt_saa]

That 148 grain load is not assembled with a DEWC (which are usually cast) it is assembled with a soft swagged HBWC

Berrys makes a plated HBWC that I have used in the past and it worked well. It does start with a swagged projectile

The only reason that I did not continue to use it was I came into a Very, VERY large cache of Remington HBWC Match ammunition that I am still shooting with today

 

[rockquarry]

My local indoor range no longer allows lead bullets other than rimfires. All centerfire ammo has to be jacketed, coated or plated. JHP's and JSP's are OK.

I have a good supply of factory 148 grain full wadcutter target grade ammo for my Model 52-2, S&W pre-Model 14 and Colt Officers Model Match but those loads are verboten at that range now. I understand that one should just go ahead and use regular published data for coated and plated bullets but am most interested in duplicating the old classic 148 gr. DEWC swaged bullets with 2.7 grains of Bullseye loads for my Model 52-2.

I have a supply of Bullseye, Red Dot, Unique and 231 powders among others. Can anyone suggest a good supplier of coated or plated full wadcutter bullets for flush seating and a load for them that will ensure good functioning in my Model 52-2 ?

I don't use them, but I see your situation. If possible, I'd try to get small quantities (maybe 200 bullets) plated and coated from at least three or four bullet makers.

Granted, a greater-than-normal expense requiring a good bit of load development and fine tuning, but you'll know without a doubt which bullet you should buy in quantity. You already have appropriate powders, but initially, I'd work with nothing but Bullseye as it will likely be your best bet, then 231, then Red Dot. I wouldn't bother with Unique.

Shoot groups at 25 yards from a bench rest if your indoor range has that much distance. Shooting closer won't tell you nearly as much and it will be diffcult to tell good loads from poor ones.

 

[Rule3]

38 CAL 148 Grain WC.DBB Coated


Missouri Bullet Company


The MBC bullets are a tad softer 12 BHN
Acme are 16 but have much nicer boxes!

 

[reddog81]

Coated bullets are lead bullets. The load data doesn’t change.

The HBWCs might be more accurate but 2.7 grains of bullseye should get you where you want to go just as well as any other load using DEWCs.

 

[rockquarry]

Coated bullets are lead bullets. The load data doesn’t change.

The HBWCs might be more accurate but 2.7 grains of bullseye should get you where you want to go just as well as any other load using DEWCs.

It's worth doing load development and not assume one load is best in every gun. 2.5 grs. easily outshot anything heavier in mine when using the H&G #50 WC.

 

[venomballistics]

Yourself ....
If you don't already cast, this could be your divine sign to start.
If that's not enough to get you pouring lead .... perhaps soaking swaged in lacquer thinner to get the lube off will allow you to use the pigglet powder coating method to get you back in the game with them

 

[Walter Rego]

I'm a pretty experienced reloader but have never tried coated or plated bullets. I was just curious if there was anything about them that would present a challenge for the Model 52-2 in particular. I figure my .38 Special revolvers would be pretty forgiving.

I did find these two 148 grain plated wadcutters from Berry's Bullets and they look interesting. Has anyone tried either of them ?:

38 Special 148 Grain Wadcutters | 38 Special Wadcutter

38 Special 148 Grain Wadcutters | Wadcutter Bullet

 

[venomballistics]

I run coated in just about everything, including gas operated autos.
You're not going to encounter any problems

 

[glenwolde]

I'd be tempted to just paint the exposed lead of my loaded HBWC ammo....

 

[venomballistics]

I'd be tempted to just paint the exposed lead of my loaded HBWC ammo....

The smoke will give you away.
Coating is within the home gamers abilities and brings you into honest compliance.

 

[johngalt]

What is the concern from the range? The lead being burned/melted when fired, or when it hits the backstop?

I would be tempted to try coating my existing supply of lead bullets while I looked for a better range.

 

[rwsmith]

I use Missouri's...

...125 gr SWC slike crazy. They feed and cut good holes.

I have used some X-Treme plated and found them to be very good.

Bayou Bullets are a good source, too.

 

[6string]

Sorry to hear about your predicament. Possibly not an option in your case, but, personally, I’d just find another range.
What’s the point of their stupid rule? Lead is evil in centerfires, but not evil in rimfires? Or, maybe just a little bit evil in rimfires, therefore it’s OK?

Even with swaged lead bullets, M52 barrels can wear out! There’s a good bit of demand these days for aftermarket M52 replacement barrels. That’s remarkable for a long discontinued gun.
Who knows what impact coatings or plating will have on your pistol?
About 20-25 years ago, moly coated bullets were hyped as the best thing since smokeless powder. “It extends the life of your barrel, reduces or eliminates fouling, and enhances accuracy”, or so we were told. Then, it was found that even trace amounts of residue could trap moisture in the barrel causing extremely bad pitting.
So, in true gun press style, all the hyperbole was quickly memory-holed, faster than the Ministry of Truth in Orwell’s 1984.

I don’t use plated or coated bullets in anything. I’m pretty sure I’ve read that the USAMU and/or other service branch marksmanship units have thoroughly tested this stuff, with no advantages found.

Best wishes!

 

[rockquarry]

Sorry to hear about your predicament. Possibly not an option in your case, but, personally, I’d just find another range.
What’s the point of their stupid rule? Lead is evil in centerfires, but not evil in rimfires? Or, maybe just a little bit evil in rimfires, therefore it’s OK?

Even with swaged lead bullets, M52 barrels can wear out! There’s a good bit of demand these days for aftermarket M52 replacement barrels. That’s remarkable for a long discontinued gun.
Who knows what impact coatings or plating will have on your pistol?
About 20-25 years ago, moly coated bullets were hyped as the best thing since smokeless powder. “It extends the life of your barrel, reduces or eliminates fouling, and enhances accuracy”, or so we were told. Then, it was found that even trace amounts of residue could trap moisture in the barrel causing extremely bad pitting.
So, in true gun press style, all the hyperbole was quickly memory-holed, faster than the Ministry of Truth in Orwell’s 1984.

I don’t use plated or coated bullets in anything. I’m pretty sure I’ve read that the USAMU and/or other service branch marksmanship units have thoroughly tested this stuff, with no advantages found.

Best wishes!

I'm very much in agreement, but the newschoolers and shortcutters to proper load development likely never will. Too much effort. The Cast Bullet Association match participants would have discovered the alleged benefits of coated bullets some time ago if there had been any sort of overall accuracy advantage over traditional cast bullets.

Plated bullets may be the very worst in terms of accuracy, but few seem to care. Good enough is good enough and no real load development is required.

 

[Forrest r]

I'm very much in agreement, but the newschoolers and shortcutters to proper load development likely never will. Too much effort. The Cast Bullet Association match participants would have discovered the alleged benefits of coated bullets some time ago if there had been any sort of overall accuracy advantage over traditional cast bullets.

Plated bullets may be the very worst in terms of accuracy, but few seem to care. Good enough is good enough and no real load development is required.

Well that splains everything

Nothing like stating new shooters and shortcutters don't do "proper" load development. Then parroting what you perceive what other may or may not of found.

 

[rockquarry]

Well that splains everything

Nothing like stating new shooters and shortcutters don't do "proper" load development. Then parroting what you perceive what other may or may not of found.

Based on what I read here. No parroting involved. I was certainly not all inclusive. I realize there are exceptions.

 

[71vette]

I can’t add much, but in my limited experience with coated vs plated bullets I’ve gotten better accuracy with coated. I have done some longer range work on 38 Special specifically because of my Henry Model X 357 I have setup for a suppressor. At 100 yards with 4 grains of Win 244 the Summit City 158 grain coated SWC’s shot the best group, followed by Xtreme plated, then Berry’s last. I was not specifically chasing accuracy, I wanted to keep them subsonic in the 17.4 inch barrel so my load development was focused on velocity.

 

[Forrest r]

Stay away from the plated bullets unless your shooting @ 50ft. Even then you'll have uncalled fliers.

The real issue you'll have is finding a soft commercial coated bullet. Softer lead bullets make it a lot easier to find accurate loads.

What most shooters can't seem to grasp/see with coated bullets is that the coating is a jacket. That jacket aids in sealing the bbl from leaking gasses, protects the bbl from leading. Coupled with keeping the bbl/cylinder clean long due to fouling.

Accuracy and accuracy statements are always interesting. At the end of the day a 2 1/2" group @ 50yds is just that. Doesn't matter if you're using traditionally swaged & lubed bullets, cast/lubed bullets or cast coated bullets. Once you've achieved the level of accuracy your trying to find. The bullet type/style/lube/coating/etc. becomes irreverent.

To say any one of those bullets is more accurate than the other would be plain foolish.

To say finding accurate loads is easier with a swaged bullet VS cast/lubed VS cast coated bullets is easy to prove.

To say finding accurate loads over a wide range of pressures/velocities with swaged VS cast/lubed VS coated bullets is extremely easy to prove.

Th op never stated at what distances he'd be shooting.
50ft isn't that picky
25yds starts to get interesting
50yds takes a little work

At the end of the day the hard alloy'd cast/coated bullets are what will hold you back.

 

[Forrest r]

I don't chase accuracy either. The best way I can put it is that I have a hobby within a hobby. Meaning I like to make/test my own bullets and shooting/reloading are actually secondary to the bullet making/testing.

I'm actually amazed more casters haven't picked up on the softer alloy coated bullet thing. Seeing how it's getting harder to find alloyed lead.


in 2015 I did a little head to head testing with a beater 629 and traditionally cast/lubed bullets VS cast/coated bullets. I cast 7 different bullets using a soft 8/9bhn alloy. 1/2 got the traditional lubed/sized. The other half got coated and then sized in the same lyman 450 sizer. I used 5 different powders doing ladder tests with starting loads (44mag) going up to +/- 25,000psi loads. Basically I was looking for blammo ammo/shooting golf balls @ 25yds.

At the end of the day with the traditionally cast/lubed bullets VS cast/coated bullets @ 25yds/6-shot groups looking for groups that measured 1 1/2" or less outside to outside measurements on the holes in the targets.

Traditionally cast/lubed bullets had 3 loads that held the 1 1/2" 6-shot groups @ 25yds.

The cast//coated bullets had 13 loads that held the 1 1/2" 6-shot groups @ 25yds.

That 13 VS 3

The firearm used was a beater 629 with a 7x scope mounted on it rested @ 25yds. Same firearm/alloy/bullet mold/reloading & sizing dies/same powder/ same everything.

Could I of pulled a shot here or there? Absolutely!!! I'm not the greatest shot but I tried my best. And 3 vs 13 is a huge difference.

Would I state that coated bullets are more accurate than their traditionally lubed counterparts??? Absolutely not!!! Both types of bullets were just as accurate, but I will say it was easier to find accurate loads with the cast/coated bullets.

A traditionally cast/lubed bullet has pressure exerted on its base/bottom drive band. This compresses the lube grove forcing the lube outward and pressurizing it at the same time. Forcing it forward past the front drive band/bands. The lube not only protects the bbl from leading it acts like a gasket sealing the gasses/pressure from the gun powder.

Coated bullets have a coating that does the same thing as traditional lube. The difference is that it's already everywhere it has to be. It isn't dependent of that magic pressure/alloy/compression combo that makes for an accurate load.

Recovered 44cal cast bullets. They were shot with different loads/pressures and are cast with different alloys. If you look at the lube grooves of these bullets you can clearly see different amounts of compression (larger/smaller) lube grooves.