Reloading for Shotgun...

[rwsmith]

I'd like to do some basic reloading of shotguns, target loads with lead 3 or 4 aught buckshot (preferably lead or some common, inexpensive shot and other easily obtainable components). My operation right now is something like a makeshift Lee Loader handloader tool.

The problem is that I see that data is specific for the type of hull, type of wad, and primer. The hulls I have are the reduced recoil 2 3/4" Remington green plastic slug type, 1200 fps, high brass, but no other identifying marks.

Primer, no problem, I can get what I need.

I have Red Dot and Unique powder. I was thinking about getting some Green Dot if I had to.

Looking at some load data online, there are many kinds of wads. Except for length, and maybe the length of the shock absorbing section, does it make that much difference? Is there a 'universal' wad for 2 3/4" shell that would work for most target loads? I guess the easiest solution could be to use felt wads for starters.

Where is a good place to look for load data for this type load. I don't want to get in bismuth or steel, unless I have to. For now I'm aiming for strictly light target rounds. Later I may do some deer loads.

I shot a 3" deer load out of this Akkar (LIGHT plastic/aluminum) pump gun that I came by and it like to have killed me. My son is interested in hunting deer and I'd like to come up with something he can use that is more deadly for the deer than it is for the shooter.

I shot the reduced recoil slugs today to see how to aim it, and they were much more tolerable, If you wear thick padding and gloves, that is.

Can anybody point me in the right, or several right directions?

Thanks,

Wayno

 

[Fishinfool]

It's been years since I reloaded for a shotgun, but I will say it is important to follow book recipes exactly. Shotshells do not lend themselves to variation and experimentation like rifle & handgun cartridges do. They operate in a narrow pressure window that is easy to go past with the wrong components.

Red Dot is a good target level powder in the 12 ga. I used it all the time for 1 1/8 ounce skeet loads. No reason it wouldn't work for 1 1/8 ounce buckshot loads with the right wadd.

Might want to look for an old MEC 600 jr for cheap on the internet. Simple and easy to use, and reliable. Much faster and easier to use than a LEE type unit.

High or low brass cases really have little bearing on the strength or power of the load, just as long as you use the exact componants listed in the manual. I used Remington RXP low brass cases for everything from skeet to heavy duck loads.

Larry

 

[s&wchad]

Yes, wads and hulls absolutely matter. Follow published recipes.
High brass is more symbolic than structural and creates issues when resizing. You'll make life easier on yourself if you obtain some once fired Win AA hulls or Rem STS target hulls. They're interchangeable, last a long time and there's plenty of reloading data out there. They both work fine with Win WAA12 or equivalent wads.

I've reloaded countless target loads in all gauges, but I've never bothered to reload buckshot or slugs. Give the amount of shooting you'll probably do, you're probably better served just buying reduced recoil shells.

On a final note, I'm not a fan of buckshot for deer hunting. Since you're shotgun doesn't have a rifled barrel, I'd recommend standard rifled slugs. Recoil will be stout, but they're much more effective and humane.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Green dot is an old stand by for 12 gauge target loads. The Good: It burns relatively clean and out of longer (28-32") barrels, doesn't have lots of muzzle flash or smoke. The Bad: Green Dot is very temperature sensitive! Your summer load can be 200 fps slower on cold days or evenings! A hot winter load, with repeated summer use, could damage your gun!

The solution: Get a different powder! That is simple to say, but then what powder? Opinions are like various body parts- everybody has them, but most are best left covered in darkness!

You want a powder for safe, economical, clean, and temperature stable shooting. There are probably several! I haven't used every powder out there, however I have used CLAYS (not Clay dot, not Universal Clays, just Clays!) It will do many of the target loads in most hulls. I have no idea if there are loads for Buckshot with Clays! Most 12 gauge target loads are between 7/8 and 1 1/8 ounce of #9-#7 1/2 shot aka birdshot. Buckshot has large pellets that travel a long way, and no Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clays facility I have heard of allows them. A place that may allow the use of Buckshot loads would be 3 gun Combat shoots (but they may not because of damage to their range.


Just like pistol and rifle reloading, you need good safe data for the ammo you want to reload! Most shotgun data comes from the powder makers. Hodgdon's website has a shotgun section for Winchester, IMR and Hodgdon powders. Data is usually based on the Hull and wad combo . To determine what you want to know start with the brand of hull (there are often 2 types per company [federal also makes a paper hull that uses another set of data!] Then go to type of load you want; Target, hunting, or buckshot. Then the size load (how much shot). That will give you some type of chart with you options based on how fast, what primer, ect. You'll see a number of choices for quantity of powder, you'll need to seed if your press makes a powder bushing for that size of charge. Warning: on the size of all the components and the adjustment in your press; NOT ALL LISTED COMBOS WILL FIT IN A SHELL!!! It safe to reduce the amount of shot if too big. It is almost always safe to add a light weight filler if too small (I have used dried beans in the past for this)

Just like metallic reloading; more lead+more powder=more pressure and more recoil!

Different powder/wad/hull combos will have more or less felt recoil than other combos. This is always a selling point! So don't believe everything you read!!!

I hope you are less confused now. Feel free to PM me if you have questions;

Ivan

 

[tops]

Use one piece hulls. On two piece hulls sometimes the base wad will come loose and lodge in the barrel and the next shot won't be pleasant. Remington still makes one piece hulls (STS and Gun Club, same loading data) but Winchester AA hulls have been two piece for years. Shine a light down the case and you can see that on one piece hulls the base and sides is all one piece. Red Dot powder is hard to beat. Larry

 

[oneounceload]

There is no do-it-all wad for shotgun. This is much different than pistol or rifle reloading. Hull type matters as does primer and powder. Once you have determined your hull, go to the powder maker websites like Hodgdon and Alliant and determine what wad and powder charge you need for your payload.

I reload and shoot about 15,000 shotgun shells a year - and have for about 35 years - and personally, I like the Remington in 12 and 20 and the Winchester AA in 28 and 410. Your size of shot may need to be put in the hull by hand; not sure of it will feed reliably down the drop tube. A MEC Jr will be inexpensive (used on local Craigs list for about $75) in conjunction with your scale, you should be GTG.

 

[WR Moore]

GO BUY A LYMAN SHOTSHELL RELOADING MANUAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's way cheaper than the possible results of being ignorant.

This will answer almost all your questions, teach you how to identify shells plus provide you with reloading data. Or convince you not to bother.

Shotgun reloading is no place for do it yourself experimentation. The use of the shell/hull, primer, powder, wad and shot charge listed is necessary to prevent over pressure events. Depending upon various factors, you sometimes need to adjust the powder choice, wad choice and/or shot charge to provide correct crimping. Yes, wads are sufficiently different that you may need to experiment. Last year I found a listed load for a WWAA hull wouldn't crimp, but the next load down with a different wad did. Same powder & charge, primer and shot charge.

I started shotgun reloading late in life (because I bought a shotgun that was picky about what it needed to function and a co-worker offered me a virtual gift of 2 MEC Jr presses.), I'm old enough to remember shotgun reloading before the one piece wads. Standard equipment for the guys who reloaded at that time was a dowel rod to clear the barrels after a load went burp instead of bang. Yes, I'm sometimes sorry I started. On the other hand, once the load is figured out and the press adjusted, it's simply repetitious.

At least you seem to have collected a stash of brand name shells to reload. BTW, you won't find data for many of the bargain basement/promotional hulls.

 

[arjay]

There's good information on line.You can find it on the wad manufacturer sites.I got back into it for awhile after having loaded a lot of em years ago.Most hulls used for inexpensive (promotional) loads are throw aways .The good ones (brand name target loads) have a built in base wad of varying heights so it's very wad specific to that,powder and shot charge.High brass is just a hold over of an old marketing gimmick

 

[Rpg]

OP has gotten a lot of good advice above. To add a few points:

Stick with lead shot. Using anything else will add significant additional difficulties and cost to the reloading operations. You can not simply substitute non lead projectiles in a load designed for lead.

No non-lead shot performs as well as lead. No one uses non lead shot for anything unless they must do so as a result of legal restrictions on lead.

Shotgun reloading makes sense when you are shooting high volumes. Unless you are running a shotgun training program for LEOs, I can’t imagin reloading buckshot or slugs offering an economic benefit.

The vast majority of folks who try buckshot or slug shotgun shells shoot very few rounds of the stuff. 100 rounds of buckshot will last most folks for many years.

There are low recoil buckshot loads available commercially. Use them. Trying to duplicate them by reloading is hardly worth the trouble, given how few of them you are likely to shoot.

You may be happier with a better, heavier shotgun than trying to tone loads down enough to make them pleasant to shoot in a light gun.

 

[2152hq]

A shotshell reloading data manual or a good look at mfg's data on the net is good place to start. No experimenting!

There's thousands of load combinations possible.
The best way to start IMO is to figure out what empty shotshell hull/case you are going to have a good supply of.
Then go to the mfg's data (powder mfg/ wad mfg, ect) and select a load using that hull that fits your need.

The suggestion of using a one-piece hull is a good one IMO. No worry's about a base wad separation and that base wad getting stuck in the bore,,the next shot doing damage to the bbl.
I use so called two piece hulls for reloading but only use them in SxS's and have a life long habit of glancing down the bores after opening the gun to check and make sure they are clear. Yes I have caught a bore obstruction in the past.

Most common shot loads travel at 1200fps. That's not a set in stone speed, but it is a well established mark that is often used for both clay target and hunting. I believe registered Skeet and Trap loads must be at least 1200fps.

With your pile of free hulls that you picked up at the local range, you can now figure out what weight of lead (oz) you want to shoot.
Keep it simple at first. Pick a load and stick to it. Don't try and load all kinds of different specialty loads.
In 12ga right now a 7/8oz or 1oz load is very popular.
It'll do everything you need it to do.

Go to the loading manual/data and find the hull/case you have chosen in the gauge you are loading.
Then select the charge weight,,for example 1oz load.
The data will then give you a long list of loads for that combination.
They will be separated by different combinations or primer, wad & powder types

Pick one that suits you. Go out and obtain the necessary componets that the load recipe shows.
You may have a supply of a certain powder already,,so skip down to the section of those loads that lists that powder and then see what wad and primer you will need.
Some primers may be hard to find, others not. So you select a load on the basis of what you can buy to fill it. Same with the wad.

If the powder you have isn't listed in say the 1oz load section,,try looking in the 7/8oz load section for the same hull type. It may be there. Then select the primer and wad as before.

There's your load.
Don't be confused by the pages and pages of other loads listed. They are there if you want to use them. But they all will do the same thing.
In the catagory you are looking (ex:1200fps, 1oz lead shot), that's what the result will be.

A Mec Jr single stage is a good starting press. I still load 410 & 20 on them. I went to a progressive Mec for 12ga as I shoot so much more of it but a well used single stage 12ga Lee LoadAll was it for me for many years before that.
I even had a Lee LoadFAst that I got going. The worlds worst progressive!, I found out why it was in a box marked FREE when I spotted it at a gunshow. But I got it working w/quite a frustrating working curve to go with it, and used it till it just plain wore out it's plastic parts. That lead me to the Mec 9000progressive.
It can be quite addicting. I just bought another 10,000 primers, 10,000 wads and two 8# of ClayDot.,,,,and I just shoot for fun

 

[Nevada Ed]

As mentioned, don't sweat the high or low Brass bass section
that is on the hulls.
The #1 main thing is to match your data to the HULL that you are loading.
#2 find data for the wad that you will use.............. this sets how much powder
and amount of pellets that can be used in the data for this
hull and wad combination.

The wad can sit higher or lower to adjust for different types of powder..........
and also for the different amounts of pellets.

With the correct amount of powder and pellets, you should have
a finished load that has a good crimp and looks correct.

There is now Steel but Lead is the best way to go for shotgun loads that do not need special "Items" like we had to use in the
old days before they invented the plastic wad.

Nothing to it if you can read, have fun.

 

[MichiganScott]

I started loading shotshells when I was a poor college student back in about 1970. I continued when the price of lead skyrocketed. Once prices came back down on lead and I stopped shooting trap and skeet, my loading equipment began gathering dust. The last time I used it was when I needed a box of spreader loads.

Today there is very little that is not available commercially. I doubt, that in most cases, my own reloads approached the quality of what is already out there.

 

[ggibson511960]

Always Reload to a Published Recipe!!

Never, never, never change a published recipe. Nothing good can happen. Let the component vendors do the experimenting for you. Every shotshell load is a compressed load of fast burning powder in a paper or plastic cartridge, fired in guns that don't operate well above 15,000 psi. Messing around with changing wads and hulls will get you shells with bad crimps, a real show stopper for repeaters. And lastly, virtually all shotshell recipes aim for a muzzle velocity of 1,200 fps. You will see high velocity factory ammunition advertised as the wonder solution to long range shotgun shooting. Popycock! Those round orbs spitting out the muzzle are the most ballistically inefficient projectiles ever. At 20 yards those high speed balls have shed their energy and velocity down to near the level of standard velocity loads, and dispersed themselves into a bad pattern to boot, the dread "blown pattern" problem. Now why experiment to get faster shotshells? Patterning is the real goal, and the shells have to work through your shotgun.

 

[oneounceload]

Never, never, never change a published recipe. Nothing good can happen. Let the component vendors do the experimenting for you. Every shotshell load is a compressed load of fast burning powder in a paper or plastic cartridge, fired in guns that don't operate well above 15,000 psi. Messing around with changing wads and hulls will get you shells with bad crimps, a real show stopper for repeaters. And lastly, virtually all shotshell recipes aim for a muzzle velocity of 1,200 fps. You will see high velocity factory ammunition advertised as the wonder solution to long range shotgun shooting. Popycock! Those round orbs spitting out the muzzle are the most ballistically inefficient projectiles ever. At 20 yards those high speed balls have shed their energy and velocity down to near the level of standard velocity loads, and dispersed themselves into a bad pattern to boot, the dread "blown pattern" problem. Now why experiment to get faster shotshells? Patterning is the real goal, and the shells have to work through your shotgun.

"Never" is too strong. There ARE acceptable substitutions in primers in most cases and clone wads can be easily used in lieu of more expensive OEM wads.

 

[DWalt]

It's very simple, no need to complicate it. Get some Winchester AA fired cases and stick with using AA. Buy wads made for the AA case. For 12 gauge use Red Dot. For 20 gauge use Green Dot. Follow loading recommendations on the Alliant powder website for whatever shot weight you want to use. Don't worry about what brand of primers to use. It makes no difference. It's a total waste of time, money, and effort to switch around cases and wads and powder trying to find the "best" load. I learned this from over 20 years of shooting trap and skeet.

Note that when shotshells are on sale, it is about as cheap to buy them instead of reloading, and you don't have to do any work. This is because of the high price of shot. If you are a hunter you are better off buying the appropriate shells for what you are hunting rather than loading them yourself. Including slug loads.

 

[rwsmith]

Great info and advice guys.....THANKS.....

I will heed all warnings. I experiment with metallic reloading, but I have no desire for shotgun, except for shootable loads. The 2 3/4" low recoil slugs were MUCH more comfortable to shoot from the pump than the full loads. I was prepared this time. I had a padded jacket and gloves.

I don't know if I'm going to get into this in a big way, but having reloaded everything else, I'd like to try shotgun.

I do have a Browning A5 that is plenty heavy. Full loads aren't too bad in it, so if I do targets out of that I'll have to adjust the springs. No big deal.

Having a place to shoot is no problem. We have an outdoor range that allows it, and an indoor if you don't use smaller than 4 buck. Slugs are ok,too.

If I shoot targets, i'll probably do more shotgun shooting. I have some more screw in chokes that I can experiment with for pattern.

Like I said, I got the Akkar gun cheap because some kids had messed it up. I've wanted to try out a pump, since they are so good for defense, but knowing what I know now, I'll probably get a 16 or 20 ga. If I go that way.

 

[oneounceload]

Don't worry about what brand of primers to use.

I would; some primers are hotter than others and can result in higher pressures. Secondly, Euro primers - Rio, Cheddite, NobelSport, Fiocchi are metric sized and just ever so slightly larger than US primers. If you use those (which are fine to do), just realize they will enlarge the rimer pocket just enough that US primers like Win 209s will either be loose or even fall out completely.

I prefer to reload a 3/4 oz load for 12 and 20. I get 533 rounds from a bag of expensive shot. ClayBuster makes the wads and they work in either Remington or Winchester AA hulls (I use Gun Clubs). Red Dot isn't the best for loads like that in 12, although Green Dot is good in the 20, along with others. Best powders for light loads (7/8 and 3/4) tend to be Titewad or Alliant's ExtraLite.

 

[WR Moore]

I would; some primers are hotter than others and can result in higher pressures.

The Lyman manual I bought ~18 months ago showed two tests (Lyman & Hogdon) using the available primers. Starting with a safe pressure load, they then changed only the primer. With that particular combination of components, just changing the primer could increase pressure over 30% and exceeded safe pressure limits. A couple brands increased pressures but were safe. You don't want to bet what the pressures are in your load and what they might become.

BTW, given the lighter loads typical in shotgun target games, some shotgun hulls have become shorter. I bought a batch of once fired recent production WAA12 and after having major crimp issues, discovered the 2 3/4 inch shells were actually 2 5/8 inches*. This can make getting proper shot columns and crimps really interesting. I eventually solved it by going to a denser powder that takes up less space.

* Over millions of shells, this can add up to real money. The bean counters strike again.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have loaded International 24 Gram to 1 1/2 oz lead loads at 1330fps
and found out that high Vel. loads are ok but in the end I will
settle for the good old 1 oz. #8 at 1200fps or a 1 1/8 oz. load
of 7 1/2's at 1145fps to do my shooting.
At the end of a meet or day of shooting you are not beat up and
missing birds like the guys getting kicked to death with their 3 Dram loads.

Since you also shot the old hump back 5.........
you might need this drawing to help set up your gun for proper spring operation.


Good shooting.

 

[DWalt]

I have no idea what use the OP has in mind for his reloads. All I can say is that for 12 gauge trap and skeet, 1 ounce of shot (8 or 9) is fine for Skeet, while 1-1/8 ounce (7-1/2) is preferable for trap because the distance from the firing point to the clay target is somewhat greater than in skeet, and a little more and a little heavier shot is better. 20 gauge loads are seldom used for Trap, but are used more for skeet. 2-3/4" cases in 20 gauge are fully adequate for skeet, along with 3/4 ounce shot loads. Red Dot is excellent for such 12 gauge loads while Green Dot is preferable for 20 gauge. And I will re-state my previous opinion - it makes no difference which primer brand you use with typical RD/GD loads. I have never even seen any European shotshell primers and probably wouldn't have used them if I had. I always used whatever primer brand was the cheapest/most avaialble, most of my experience being with either CCI or Federal. I have occasionally used Winchester and Remington 209 primers, but not often because I seldom saw them for sale. Long ago, I even used Herter's primers, but Herter's (at least as a company) is long gone. And I never knew any trap or skeet shooter who was the least bit concerned about which primer brand he used. At one time many years ago, Remington made a smaller diameter battery cup shotshell primer exclusive to Remington and Peters shells, but they stopped using it long ago. I have loaded some of the old Remington small primer pocket shells, and it is simple to do. Just seat a fired 209 primer to enlarge the pocket, then knock out the fired primer. Thereafter load with 209 primers.