semperfi71
US Veteran
I know it's not a S&W but it is "reloading". I will have some "Smiths" later.
Evidentially, about 1927 Colt began producing "some" Police Positive Specials with two inch barrels. These were the precursors to the Detective Special. About 1928 or 1929 Colt began production of the Detective Special. However, it appears that "maybe" some of the two inch Police Positive Specials were still made up to about 1931. Also "maybe" some of the Detective Specials were shipped in boxes marked "Police Positive Special". Then Colt settled down and made the Detective Special, leaving the two inch Police Positive Specials behind.
As such I bought a Colt "Detective Special" at a gun show and went to the Colt Forum and learned that my DS was actually a PPS two inch. It appears that "maybe" Colt made somewhere between 100 to 1,000 PPS two inch revolvers before phasing them out. No one seems to know for sure and some "experts" believe the "100 gun" figure is closer to correct.
My revolver.
So…I decided to reload for my PPS "snubbie". I wanted a cast lead 158 grain bullet at about 800 fps striking to point of aim. The "point of aim" thing became a bit of a challenge.
I will not publish the actual powder amounts I used. Reloading data abounds and data can vary between firearms used. I do not want to take responsibility for me putting up incorrect numbers by mistake or one of the millions of internet users incorrectly reading my data. All of my powder loads came from internet powder manufacture sites or one of the 30 or so reloading manuals I own.
I loaded almost every powder available for my chosen bullet within its desired velocity range. I shot five shot groups from a two-handed rest at 25 yards. My eyes are not as good as they "once were", but since I am the one owning the revolver they had to do.
Here's my "range" setup. My personal target-stand with six bulls-eyes. I shoot over the rest with the hands extended to the wrists only contacting the bag. This method allows no part of the handgun touching anything. My belief is that if the handgun is contacting "something" it may throw off the recoil and affect the groups. Pure supposition on my part but it makes sense to little ole me.
I began by choosing a variety of bullets and loading one powder. In this case Bullseye. I found that accuracy was not that good for this handgun. I am not saying that Bullseye is not accurate. It just was not accurate in m PPS.
I have found what I think is a "better" route to finding accuracy. I load one bullet and all of the powders I can find. This because most bullets will shoot well, one must just find the right powder. And a pound of powder is cheaper than a bunch of bullets. Additionally the left over powder can be used in the next reload project, or used in plinking loads.
Initially I chose four commercial cast 158 grain lead bullets, two Speer 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters (one hollowpoint), and the Hornady 158 lead semi-wadcutter with Bullseye alone. My groups were sized from 9 1/4 inches to 5 7/8 inches. I felt me, and the PPS, could do better.
So then I chose one bullet, the "Dillon/Meister" 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter and loaded the following powders; Unique, Herco, BlueDot, HS6, TrailBoss, SR4756, 800X, Accurate 2, Accurate 5, and Accurate 7. My "group" information is group size, by windage, by elevation. So, my worst group was BlueDot at 7 inches by 1 1/2 left by 2 1/2 high. My best was 4756 at 3 1/4 inches by 2 1/2 left by 3 high.
I felt the 4756 load was a good one. But not "on" with the windage. I did not chronograph it but relied on published data to "indicate" that my load was near 800 fps.
But, I had not utilized all of the powders I thought proper for my 800 fps load and I began to learn of forcing cone failures on the Colt frame sizes that include the PPS. So I started over and decided to use a soft swaged bullet, the Speer 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter. My final loads are below in inches and by size, windage, and height. The parenthesis indicates a group size that had one obvious flyer.
Competition…….9½ (didn't bother any other measurement this was so ugly)
Zip……………….....4 1/2, 1 1/2 left, 2 1/2 high
True Blue………...4, 2 left, 1 1/2 high
Silhouette………..4 3/4, 0, 3 high
700X…………….....6 1/2, 0, 3 high
Trail Boss………...4 7/8 (2 3/8), 2 left, 4 high
PB………………......10 1/4, 0, 2 high
7625…………….....6 3/4, 2 left, 3 high
800X…………….....7 (3 3/8), 1 1/2 left, 4 1/2 high
Red Dot…………...7 (3), 0, 0
Bullseye…………...5 3/8, 2, 3 high
American Select..3 3/8, 0, 2 high
Green Dot………...9 1/2 (4), 2 left, 1 high
Unique……………...No data (I failed to write it down!!)
Power Pistol………4 1/2, 1 1/2 left, 21/2 high
Herco…………….....6, 0, 2 high
Nitro 100…………..5 7/8, 0, 2 1/2 high
Accurate No.2……4 3/4, 1 1/2 left, 2 1/2 high
Accurate No.5……3 3/4, 2 left, 3 1/2 high
Auto Comp………..5 3/4, 1 1/2 left, 3 high
WST………………....10, 0, 0
W231…………….....4 3/4, 0, 0
WSF………………....3 1/2, 0, 1 1/2 high
Clays………………...4 5/8, 0, 2 1/2 high
Tite Group………...2 3/4, 1 left, 2 1/2 high
International Clays…4 5/8, 0, 0
HP38………………....6 3/4, 0, 2 high
Universal Clays….2 7/8, 0, 0
HS6…………………....5, 1, 0
Now, for those who want to see a Ransom Rest used to eliminate the "human error", go buy one and send it to me. And I will need at least 10 grip inserts as well. As such I do believe that my testing, understanding fully that I may grip, or "grimace" too much on one particular string, does prove that some of these powders will not group well at all in my PPS.
Now…the caveats. HP38 and W231 are the same powders. But I learned that after this test was conducted.
Also, since this last test, I have purchased even more brands of powder and could add more loads to the test. But read my last paragraph…it probably ain't happenin'!
Most important. These are one set of groups via five shots each. Subsequent reloading adventures with other handguns has shown that by shooting at least three, five shot groups, the size of the groups can vary by as much as two inches or more. As such a tight group of 2 1/2 inches will next group 4 inches and maybe the third will be 3 inches or less.
Also, I did not chronograph these loads. When I do choose the "final" load I will do that and try to achieve a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter at about 800 fps.
So now, when I am ready again, I should go to the range with say four chosen most accurate loads with fifteen rounds each and shoot three, five shot groups for each load. Then I will have a better "picture" of which load is the "best".
Or I might get lazy and just go with the Universal Clays load and call it good since I have only about 20 more handguns to load for and am a week away from 60 years old…time's a wasting!
Evidentially, about 1927 Colt began producing "some" Police Positive Specials with two inch barrels. These were the precursors to the Detective Special. About 1928 or 1929 Colt began production of the Detective Special. However, it appears that "maybe" some of the two inch Police Positive Specials were still made up to about 1931. Also "maybe" some of the Detective Specials were shipped in boxes marked "Police Positive Special". Then Colt settled down and made the Detective Special, leaving the two inch Police Positive Specials behind.
As such I bought a Colt "Detective Special" at a gun show and went to the Colt Forum and learned that my DS was actually a PPS two inch. It appears that "maybe" Colt made somewhere between 100 to 1,000 PPS two inch revolvers before phasing them out. No one seems to know for sure and some "experts" believe the "100 gun" figure is closer to correct.
My revolver.
So…I decided to reload for my PPS "snubbie". I wanted a cast lead 158 grain bullet at about 800 fps striking to point of aim. The "point of aim" thing became a bit of a challenge.
I will not publish the actual powder amounts I used. Reloading data abounds and data can vary between firearms used. I do not want to take responsibility for me putting up incorrect numbers by mistake or one of the millions of internet users incorrectly reading my data. All of my powder loads came from internet powder manufacture sites or one of the 30 or so reloading manuals I own.
I loaded almost every powder available for my chosen bullet within its desired velocity range. I shot five shot groups from a two-handed rest at 25 yards. My eyes are not as good as they "once were", but since I am the one owning the revolver they had to do.
Here's my "range" setup. My personal target-stand with six bulls-eyes. I shoot over the rest with the hands extended to the wrists only contacting the bag. This method allows no part of the handgun touching anything. My belief is that if the handgun is contacting "something" it may throw off the recoil and affect the groups. Pure supposition on my part but it makes sense to little ole me.
I began by choosing a variety of bullets and loading one powder. In this case Bullseye. I found that accuracy was not that good for this handgun. I am not saying that Bullseye is not accurate. It just was not accurate in m PPS.
I have found what I think is a "better" route to finding accuracy. I load one bullet and all of the powders I can find. This because most bullets will shoot well, one must just find the right powder. And a pound of powder is cheaper than a bunch of bullets. Additionally the left over powder can be used in the next reload project, or used in plinking loads.
Initially I chose four commercial cast 158 grain lead bullets, two Speer 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters (one hollowpoint), and the Hornady 158 lead semi-wadcutter with Bullseye alone. My groups were sized from 9 1/4 inches to 5 7/8 inches. I felt me, and the PPS, could do better.
So then I chose one bullet, the "Dillon/Meister" 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter and loaded the following powders; Unique, Herco, BlueDot, HS6, TrailBoss, SR4756, 800X, Accurate 2, Accurate 5, and Accurate 7. My "group" information is group size, by windage, by elevation. So, my worst group was BlueDot at 7 inches by 1 1/2 left by 2 1/2 high. My best was 4756 at 3 1/4 inches by 2 1/2 left by 3 high.
I felt the 4756 load was a good one. But not "on" with the windage. I did not chronograph it but relied on published data to "indicate" that my load was near 800 fps.
But, I had not utilized all of the powders I thought proper for my 800 fps load and I began to learn of forcing cone failures on the Colt frame sizes that include the PPS. So I started over and decided to use a soft swaged bullet, the Speer 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter. My final loads are below in inches and by size, windage, and height. The parenthesis indicates a group size that had one obvious flyer.
Competition…….9½ (didn't bother any other measurement this was so ugly)
Zip……………….....4 1/2, 1 1/2 left, 2 1/2 high
True Blue………...4, 2 left, 1 1/2 high
Silhouette………..4 3/4, 0, 3 high
700X…………….....6 1/2, 0, 3 high
Trail Boss………...4 7/8 (2 3/8), 2 left, 4 high
PB………………......10 1/4, 0, 2 high
7625…………….....6 3/4, 2 left, 3 high
800X…………….....7 (3 3/8), 1 1/2 left, 4 1/2 high
Red Dot…………...7 (3), 0, 0
Bullseye…………...5 3/8, 2, 3 high
American Select..3 3/8, 0, 2 high
Green Dot………...9 1/2 (4), 2 left, 1 high
Unique……………...No data (I failed to write it down!!)
Power Pistol………4 1/2, 1 1/2 left, 21/2 high
Herco…………….....6, 0, 2 high
Nitro 100…………..5 7/8, 0, 2 1/2 high
Accurate No.2……4 3/4, 1 1/2 left, 2 1/2 high
Accurate No.5……3 3/4, 2 left, 3 1/2 high
Auto Comp………..5 3/4, 1 1/2 left, 3 high
WST………………....10, 0, 0
W231…………….....4 3/4, 0, 0
WSF………………....3 1/2, 0, 1 1/2 high
Clays………………...4 5/8, 0, 2 1/2 high
Tite Group………...2 3/4, 1 left, 2 1/2 high
International Clays…4 5/8, 0, 0
HP38………………....6 3/4, 0, 2 high
Universal Clays….2 7/8, 0, 0
HS6…………………....5, 1, 0
Now, for those who want to see a Ransom Rest used to eliminate the "human error", go buy one and send it to me. And I will need at least 10 grip inserts as well. As such I do believe that my testing, understanding fully that I may grip, or "grimace" too much on one particular string, does prove that some of these powders will not group well at all in my PPS.
Now…the caveats. HP38 and W231 are the same powders. But I learned that after this test was conducted.
Also, since this last test, I have purchased even more brands of powder and could add more loads to the test. But read my last paragraph…it probably ain't happenin'!
Most important. These are one set of groups via five shots each. Subsequent reloading adventures with other handguns has shown that by shooting at least three, five shot groups, the size of the groups can vary by as much as two inches or more. As such a tight group of 2 1/2 inches will next group 4 inches and maybe the third will be 3 inches or less.
Also, I did not chronograph these loads. When I do choose the "final" load I will do that and try to achieve a 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter at about 800 fps.
So now, when I am ready again, I should go to the range with say four chosen most accurate loads with fifteen rounds each and shoot three, five shot groups for each load. Then I will have a better "picture" of which load is the "best".
Or I might get lazy and just go with the Universal Clays load and call it good since I have only about 20 more handguns to load for and am a week away from 60 years old…time's a wasting!
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