Reloading Question - 45 Colt Keith Bullet

[Too Much Linguini]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm shooting my S&W 25-15 .45 Colt in a bullseye league currently. I am reloading my own ammo. I recently read an old article (Guns & Ammo) concerning Elmer Keith bullets. The article recommended the use of 20 grains of IMR 4227 for an accuracy load which I am currently using behind a Badman Bullets polymer coated bullet (255 grains, 452424). I have noticed unburned powder after shooting. In the barrel and under the revolver on the range shelf. Not that I care, since the results have been phenomenal, but should I be concerned. Anyone else have any similar experiences? Should I back off? Seems like a waste of powder. Let me know. Thanks.

 

[rockquarry]

If it's accurate and you're getting the velocity you want, don't worry about unburned powder. If you have some magnum primers (or even some other standard primers) and your load isn't maximum, you might try them to see if you get less unburned powder residue, but I'd still go with what shoots best.

 

[PPCSHOOTER]

INCREASE CRIMP. IT SHOULD HELP WITH THE POWDER NOT BURNING PROPERLY.

 

[max]

I have kept a loose leaf folder of reloding data for over 30 years. It seems you are using a pretty hot load for bullseye shooting. It appears you are at approx 1000 fps.

In looking through my data, there is not a lot of info on 4227. Other powders have been more popular over the years. My preference for the .45 Colt is Unique. Others have used Red Dot, 700X and others.

I would suggest you try some lighter loads. It might make your shooting more bearable and fun.

 

[Narragansett]

I have not loaded in years, and very little 4227, but I seem to recall similar powders like 2400 and green dot (shotgun) always had unburned powder. I would not be concerned about the residue. I used 2400 almost exclusively for safety reasons. It is near impossible to double charge a cartridge without spilling it all over the place.

If I were getting the results I wanted, I would not be concerned

 

[GBertolet]

You don't need elk loads for bullseye league shooting. 5 gr of Bullseye powder or equivalent, with a 200 gr swc, would be more appropriate. That being said, in my experience 4227 is a dirty burning powder. Magnum primers and a hard crimp will help in that department.

 

[crstrode]

since the results have been phenomenal

"since the results have been phenomenal", do not change anything.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Muley Gil]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm shooting my S&W 25-15 .45 Colt in a bullseye league currently. I am reloading my own ammo. I recently read an old article (Guns & Ammo) concerning Elmer Keith bullets. The article recommended the use of 20 grains of IMR 4227 for an accuracy load which I am currently using behind a Badman Bullets polymer coated bullet (255 grains, 452424). I have noticed unburned powder after shooting. In the barrel and under the revolver on the range shelf. Not that I care, since the results have been phenomenal, but should I be concerned. Anyone else have any similar experiences? Should I back off? Seems like a waste of powder. Let me know. Thanks.

How much unburned powder are you finding? I haven't used IMR 4227 in many, many years

IIRC, Old Elmer always recommended a heavy crimp while reloading.

 

[M29since14]

Unburned powder means (comparatively) nothing to me. If I am getting good accuracy and reasonably consistent velocities I really don’t care too much. Keep the unburned powder out from under the extractor star and it’s not an issue. 4227 has always been like that. Using less powder will probably make things worse.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

You should not have unburned powder. All the powder should be consumed in order to have consistent velocities from shot to shot. I understand that in todays world you use what you have but I would recommend a true pistol or sg powder and a 200 gr swc bullet, cheaper bullets, less recoil, more loads per can of powder. I like Clays, Clay Dot, Red Dot etc. I wish there was a bullseye pistol league around here. Would be fun to try. I have a 625 Model of 1988 thats a great shooter. Good shooting.

 

[BC38]

That is a well known issue with 4227. It leaves grains of unburned powder all over - on the gun, the bench, etc.
BUT, exceptional accuracy is also a well known characteristic of 4227.
So is recoil that is more PUSH than PUNCH.
It doesn't give the highest velocities but basically it's low recoil pulse leads to excellent accuracy.
You can improve the burn with a heavier crimp, but you are still going to see some unburned powder grains.
Just the nature of the beast.

 

[ironhead7544]

IMR4227 was designed for pistol sized rifle cartridges. That load is a good one worked up to be a powerful hunting load.

In the Fourth Edition of the RCBS Reloading Guide Emer Keith specified 5.0 grs Bullseye for the 250 gr Keith bullet as a target load. He also specified 8.0 grs Unique.

The Unique load is a little faster. Be careful you do not double charge the load.

 

[Too Much Linguini]

Thanks guys for all of the feedback. It is a thumper load for sure, but recoil never bothered me. Been shooting .44 mag for years pushing the envelope on loads, but working them up slowly to be safe. Trust me, I tend to be very safe after blowing up a revolver many years ago. Long story, but I learned my lesson. Lucky to still have my eyesight and fingers, but I hit what I was aiming at! LOL. After digesting all of the replies, I'll keep on with the load since it seems to work for me, but after the league is over, I will experiment with some faster burning powders as some of you recommended. You guys are great! Keep 'em in the black!

 

[smithra_66]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm shooting my S&W 25-15 .45 Colt in a bullseye league currently. I am reloading my own ammo. I recently read an old article (Guns & Ammo) concerning Elmer Keith bullets. The article recommended the use of 20 grains of IMR 4227 for an accuracy load which I am currently using behind a Badman Bullets polymer coated bullet (255 grains, 452424). I have noticed unburned powder after shooting. In the barrel and under the revolver on the range shelf. Not that I care, since the results have been phenomenal, but should I be concerned. Anyone else have any similar experiences? Should I back off? Seems like a waste of powder. Let me know. Thanks.

Unburnt powder is a sign of pressures dropping before all powder is burnt...i.e. you actually have lower pressure than the powder's burn rate requires.

You'll probably have a better match using something like 2400, but those seems like pretty hot loads for bullseye. I'd be looking for some mid-to low speed loads for bullseye just to quell the recoil.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I’ve personally known folks and worked with guys with wrist/carpal tunnel issues, not a fun disability to deal with especially when it’s self induced. Though depending on what you do for a living it can certainly be work related. My massage therapist had to have both of her wrists done. Still waiting for her to start rescheduling. Magnum loads are ok if hunting but not target work imo. But it’s your body there Too Much.

 

[monsai52]

I used to load a lot of Unique in 45 Colt, and was satisfied with the results at 9grs, but when loaded down a bit at 7 - 8 grs, I found it started to get position sensitive with a loss of accuracy. I then switched over to Trail Boss for moderate loads. I've found TB to be very consistent with good accuracy, and obviously impervious to a double charge. It's my primary 45 Colt powder unless I want something loaded pretty hot.

Best regards,

 

[Eddie Southgate]

"since the results have been phenomenal", do not change anything.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My thoughts exactly . Try the tighter crimp . It might get rid of some unburned powder with no effect on accuracy but you can't know till you try . Magnum primers may help with the unburned powder but could also have an adverse effect on accuracy .

Load 10 rounds with a more firm crimp , load 10 rounds with a magnum primer, load 10 rounds with the addition of both and see what you get . That is really the only way to know.

 

[GCF]

Unburnt powder is typical for 4227. Try bumping your load back a bit, & use magnum primers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Are you sure it's unburned powder? Are you sure it's not soot you are seeing? Many loaders mistake one for the other.

Like said above, if it ain't broken don't fix it. Personally I would use a faster powder because 4227 is a very slow powered meant for magnum loads and light rifle loads, not the 45 Colt.

 

[Eddietruett]

Hey guys, got a question. I'm shooting my S&W 25-15 .45 Colt in a bullseye league currently. I am reloading my own ammo. I recently read an old article (Guns & Ammo) concerning Elmer Keith bullets. The article recommended the use of 20 grains of IMR 4227 for an accuracy load which I am currently using behind a Badman Bullets polymer coated bullet (255 grains, 452424). I have noticed unburned powder after shooting. In the barrel and under the revolver on the range shelf. Not that I care, since the results have been phenomenal, but should I be concerned. Anyone else have any similar experiences? Should I back off? Seems like a waste of powder. Let me know. Thanks.

I have had great results with the 255gr lead and coated lead with 8.0gr of CFE Pistol. Runs in the 800fps range and very clean and accurate in my revolvers. For years I used 5gr 231 for about the same velocity and accuracy but switched to CFE Pistol mainly because it burns much cleaner.