Remington 11 ~ Update!

[hittman77]

My elderly aunt wants me to look at an old shotgun that belonged to her now deceased husband.

I wont get the gun here until next week. All I know for now is its a Remington 11 in 12 gauge. It cycles hot or normal loads fine but wont handle ejecting “light” loads.

I know very little about shotguns other than this looks like a Browning clone.

Obviously parts availability could be a problem with what Remington has been through but ..... based on this limited info, anybody think this is a common problem with this model gun? Anything else good for me to know?

Edit to add: Don’t know the age of this gun but the person who won it at a local drawing has been deceased 35 years.

 

[max]

It is the same as a Browning and the parts should interchange.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

The Rem M11 will shoot and eject "light" loads just fine. All ya gotta do is reverse the friction ring and make sure that everything is lubed properly.

There is plenty of info available on the web to help you out. If the friction ring is worn out, they can be purchased new.

Good luck with that fine shotgun.

 

[JayCeeNC]

I had one 50 years ago.
A thread on this Forum a few years back discussed the adjustment with an internal collar or something which will allow the gun to shoot lighter loads. Can't put my finger on it, maybe someone with more knowledge of these fine old shotguns will comment.


*I see ExcitableBoy has the "fix" I was talking about*

 

[Justin T]

It is the same as a Browning and the parts should interchange.

This is not correct. About the only parts that will interchange are major springs, and the forearm.

Not ejecting light loads could be a friction piece adjustment issue or it could mean the gun needs a new recoil and action spring and friction piece.

You really need to have the gun in-hand and make good photos for review. The Model 11 is a long recoil action shotgun that has a storied history and represents what John Browning thought was his most successful design. They require some care and maintenance but if done correctly the shooter will be rewarded with a soft-recoiling, reliable workhorse.

 

[Drm50]

Browning patent shotguns that have be stored for years often have gunk in the buffer spring assembly. The heavier loads can overcome this but action will short stroke with light loads. Many of these guns have never had a deep cleaning. The cleaning of bore and wiping inside of action dissolves gunk and it drains into buffer tube. This causes as much problems as worn out friction bushings.

 

[Peak53]

...The Model 11 is a long recoil action shotgun that has a storied history and represents what John Browning thought was his most successful design...

That is quite a statement given JB's many successes I have nothing to dispute it, but there may be a few other favorites out there ...

 

[RobertJ.]

It's really very simple. Here's just one video on YT:[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa4enrfc-ZA[/ame]

 

[2152hq]

It's made to handle the heavy and 'lighter' loads of the day. That by setting up the friction ring(s) in the correct positions as others have pointed out.

What the 11 and A5 usually won't do is function reliably with the ultra light loads that are becoming fashionable. The under 7/8oz in 12ga for example and some sold as 'low recoil'.
They usually just don't have the necessary recoil to operated the action.

Some have played with the recoil spring and bolt return spring in order to reduce the amt of force needed to work them. Some even taking the friction ring out the gun altogether and letting the recoil spring do the work.

I've seen A5's work with very light 12ga loads in the under 3/4oz range with these things done. But I've also seen some with cracked butt stocks right after the start of shooting them this way with the very light loads.

Many times when they and the A5 won't function with OTC lighter loads it's the bolt return spring (the one inside the tube in the butt stock) that is rusted, dirty or otherwise not able to depress easily in recoil from the bbl.
Take the butt stock off by removing the tang screw and remove the spring by taking the retainer off the end of the tube. Spring and follower under tension will come out.

Most any of these elderly autos can use a full strip down and cleaning.

The Rem11 has a recoil buffer washer riveted to the rear wall of the recv'r at mfg'r. The FN A5 never used one. Rem decided it needed one to buffer the bolt upon recoil inspite of FN saying it did not.
That fibre matrl washer is usually gone from the guns or at least broken down and cracked from age.
They are available from parts dealers. The old mounting stud is used again by carefully straightening the end and re-riveting the new on into place. Takes a couple of simple home-made tools to do the job.
Or you can do as some so and completely ignore the use of one in the Mod 11.

Sturdy guns, built under FN licensing agreement. Remingtons are standard US dimension measurement,,FN's are metric.
Mod 11 elliminated the cut-off except for the ones that were made and marked as 'FN's' during the time the Leige factory was under German control in the 40's.

 

[CH4]

I have one of each, Remington M11 20ga and Browning A5 12ga. Hand me downs from each grandfather. Both are essentially identical except the A5 has the magazine cutoff and rib. To feed lighter loads reliably you need to make sure the magazine tube under the recoil spring is lightly lubed and the friction rings are properly configured for the loads being used. Plenty of YT videos on how that’s accomplished.

 

[mauser9]

Sure sounds like a quality gun. Well worth giving it a good cleaning and replacement of springs and other items suggested above.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

It is the same as a Browning and the parts should interchange.

NOPE!............

 

[SAFireman]

The model 11 is one of my favorites, if you don't like it, send it to me

And the posters above are correct - it may just need a good clean & lube. If it still doesn't cycle your brand of shells, the adjust the tension and try again (if all else fails, send it to me )

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Rem Model 11, that takes me back.
As a kid, used one that belonged to an Uncle.
Later, used a Rem 11-48 that belonged to another Uncle.
My Bro and I were competitive on using the Stevens Double Hammer Gun that we had on pretty much on Permanent Loan - Grandpa Gun.
So we often needed another gun.
Then I bought my Sears Single Shot 20GA.

 

[Drm50]

Savage built Browning Patent models and Rem autos up to 11-48 used same system. The A5 was the only successful auto loader for years. It certainly was longest running design. Rem 1100 gas operated would be second but it’s not going to have the life span of the A5. It also will never have the clones that have come off the A5.

 

[KSDeputy]

That was my Dad's bird hunting shotgun. After he passed I had the shotgun rebuilt from top to bottom. It looks new. I had the barrel cut to 18" with a bead sight on it. It shoots fine. The only problem with this gun is they put the serial number on the feed ramp, and a couple of letters or number have been worn off. I know there is a way to bring them up, but it will change the feed ramp. It has been in the safe since 1972. We also have an old hex barrel .22 in the family. It has a knob on one side, and shoots only .22 shorts. I can't remember the brand, but I have been told these guns are very popular.

 

[hittman77]

Still don’t have gun in hand but serial number is in the 303xxx range. I don’t know the numbers on the barrel and assume (??) Remington dates their shotguns by those barrel numbers and not in s/n order .... please correct me if I’m wrong on that!

Thanks for all your input gentlemen.

Today I’ve heard more of the story on this gun and suspect that someone tried to use light loads while trap shooting. I don’t remember this uncle ever trap shooting but he was a BIG TIME bird hunter. He traveled from MO to IA to SD and further west to hunt birds. Once every couple of years he hunted birds in Canada too.

This gun was given to a “big city” distant relative .. not an outdoorsman or gun guy .... who we’re sure never fired it. He then gave it to another relative who complained it “won’t cycle light loads” and he actually RETURNED it to my aunt.

That’s when the aunt called me cause she wants to either fix it or dispose of it. ( luckily there is a competent gunsmith in my town ) With your info given me here I’m pretty optimistic the problem was more with WHO had the gun and not the gun itself.

Thanks.

 

[Justin T]

Op, definitely FIX IT. It’s worth it.

 

[Justin T]

That is quite a statement given JB's many successes I have nothing to dispute it, but there may be a few other favorites out there ...

Of course! If memory serves correctly the reference is from something written in his biography-was his sentiment, not mine. The Auto 5 was a design that was unique at its inception-it simply had not been done before. He worked on it for a very long time and tested it much more than any of his other stuff.

 

[2152hq]

303,xxx would likely be mfg in the mid 1920's.
AFAIK there are no Remington factory records around related to ser# /production yr of mfr.

There is a list that has been compiled by the collecting interests that lists known guns and their ser#'s with their known production yrs. Those from factory letters, invoices or other records. Scattered data for sure but it helps fill in the voids.
One (g)estimated production by yr chart by one collector.
Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates??? - Remington Society


The best way to tell production and easiest is on those guns made in 1921 and going forward.
From 1921 and on, Remington used a Barrel Date Code on their guns.
First check to make sure the bbl is matching ser# to the frame.
A ser# in the 303,xxx range should have a bbl date code.
Then use the Date Code to find the Month/Yr of production.
(A couple of the Rem Bbl Date Code listings on the net have small mistakes in them. This one from the Remington Collectors is correct as far as I can tell)

Manufacture Dates – Remington Society of America

There may be more than one bbl date code on the bbl.
The one closest to the frame is the production date.
Any stamped to the left of that are usually date codes using a '3' to denote Service Dept/Repair .
That '3' often looks quite like an 8 and the 3 is also found stamped backwards(upside-down) for some reason.

There are other numbers used with a date code for such things as Canadian Sale, Employee Sale or No Work Done/Returned.

I second Justin T's thoughts above,,,have a decent 'smith look it over. It may only need a bit of cleaning and the rings set up properly to get it back in service.