replacing the front sight on a S&W 617 4"
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Big Cholla
Member
First of all it requires a roll pin punch not a standard drift pin. Just eyeballing mine it looks like the smallest standard roll pin punch of 1/16" dia. I have no idea if yours is a solid pin or a roll pin, but my guess is that is is the factory roll pin. Brownells is a good source for ramp sight blades. S&W would probably have them also.
Since the Model 617 is not usually thought of being in the category of pistols that requires fast draw from a holster, my thinking is that the factory patridge sight is optimum for the handgun. YMMV .... Big Cholla
wantmoresmiths
Member
Coming from another pair of "Old eyes" let me suggest that you consider a fibre optic front sight if they are available. All my competition guns wear fibre optic front sights. Huge improvement over patridge sights (my second choice) or ramped sights.
MakeMyNight
Member
Be careful to well support the barrel area surrounding the front sight roll pin.
I've seen folks bend, distort, damage their gun, because that 617 stainless is a bit softer than regular S&W gun steel, and the sides of the front sight area is not particularly thick.
Also, If You change the Patridge front sight blade to a Ramp blade, You're going to need a lower rear site blade, because the ramp blade is significantly taller, than the patridge blade. Not enough vertical adjustment.
Measure the height of the rear blade (top to bottom), if it is .160", you'll prolly need a .146", or if it's a .146", you'll prolly need the .122" or whatever.
Have Fun!
I've seen folks bend, distort, damage their gun, because that 617 stainless is a bit softer than regular S&W gun steel, and the sides of the front sight area is not particularly thick.
Also, If You change the Patridge front sight blade to a Ramp blade, You're going to need a lower rear site blade, because the ramp blade is significantly taller, than the patridge blade. Not enough vertical adjustment.
Measure the height of the rear blade (top to bottom), if it is .160", you'll prolly need a .146", or if it's a .146", you'll prolly need the .122" or whatever.
Have Fun!
alphabrace
Member
Thought about changing mine also but it will be with fiber optic. I have seen them advertised for the 617. I have fiber on my m&p 9.
MakeMyNight
Member
Yes, the fiber optic sight is nice in the field, but not great under a cover pistol range.
I've tried several different blades on My 617, and simply went back to the factory patridge blade, every time.
S&W knew what they were doing when they built this fine revolver.
What I have changed permanently was the rear sight blade, that is, I changed it to a white outline blade.
robmcd
Member
I installed a HiViz green fiber optic front sight on my 617 this afternoon. You can drive the roll pin out with a .050 pin punch, and then remove the front sight blade with padded pliers. Replacement sights, including the HiViz, are not pre-drilled. Insert the new sight and hold it in place while drilling with a #54 bit. Drill carefully by hand a little at a time, alternating sides until you are through. When you reinstall the pin it will follow the hole even if it is not quite straight. I replaced the roll pin with a solid .055 pin. You can get everything you need from Brownell's, or you can also get pins from Speedshooter Specialties (including oversize "repair" pins).
Mule88
Member
I had a red ramp installed on both my 617 and 648 and for me it was a big improvement.
Wee Hooker
Member
Been around the block with this one of my two 617's as my eyes age.
IMHO, The fiber optic is a very nice option for general outdoor shooting but lacks definition of shape for precision bullseye shooting.
I've considered other styles/types as well but ended up pretty content with just painting the partridge sight. ( Gold bead was a close second)
I'd suggest it's a simple, cheap and reversible experiment anyway. I've found a white base of Testers model paint covered by a red/orange top coat of the same brand works great. Goes on neat, wears well and retains it's brightness/contrast. Just apply sparingly with the tip of a tooth pick.
IMHO, The fiber optic is a very nice option for general outdoor shooting but lacks definition of shape for precision bullseye shooting.
I've considered other styles/types as well but ended up pretty content with just painting the partridge sight. ( Gold bead was a close second)
I'd suggest it's a simple, cheap and reversible experiment anyway. I've found a white base of Testers model paint covered by a red/orange top coat of the same brand works great. Goes on neat, wears well and retains it's brightness/contrast. Just apply sparingly with the tip of a tooth pick.
Gadgetmonster
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I am getting ready to install one of these in a day or two. I can envision everything except press fitting a solid .055 pin into the side of an odd shaped piece. Arbor press it? Tap it in with a ball peen? What works best?
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gr7070
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The red ramp is easily the worst of the four common front sight options!
I like the green fiber optic best. Get a good FO sight, like the SDM Super Sight, and it has a squared top for precision.
The gold bead is a close second.
The patridge is far, far behind those two, but far ahead of the red ramp.
Buy a rear sight blade the same height as those used on the 686. Get a plain black blade or reverse the white outline. One should focus on the front sight - the white outline is a worse idea than the awful red ramp!
I like the green fiber optic best. Get a good FO sight, like the SDM Super Sight, and it has a squared top for precision.
The gold bead is a close second.
The patridge is far, far behind those two, but far ahead of the red ramp.
Buy a rear sight blade the same height as those used on the 686. Get a plain black blade or reverse the white outline. One should focus on the front sight - the white outline is a worse idea than the awful red ramp!
andyo5
Member
I have a gold bead dot sight on my 627 Pro and love it. I have patridge sights on most of my guns and they work for me in most lighting situations. Red ramp sights would be best bought directly from S&W. You will get exactly the correct sight. I find them useful in low light conditions only, especially when back-lit. In bright light, the red insert glows and obscures the sight picture (at least, for my old eyes). I hear great things about fibre optics. S&W sells them online as do a number of others such as Midway USA.
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I installed the HiViz (Green) front sight on my S&W 617-6 (4" barrel) and the results were excellent. It's easier to get good sight alignment and sight picture with the HiViz versus the OEM black front sight. I've included installation notes (long) below in case anyone is interested:
You will need to drill a hole in the HiViz base tab for the roll pin to install it on a S&W 617. You can pay a smith to install it for $20 - $30 or you can install it yourself if you have the right tools and skill level. I installed the HiViz on a S&W 617 in about an hour. Here are instructions if you plan to DIY:
Tools/Materials needed: .050 cup tip punch (Brownells); a 2”x2”x3/4” piece of plywood; small hammer; 1.35 mm (.053) drill bit with a 1/8” shank (get at least two drill bits, available on eBay for about $1.99 each) and a variable speed Dremel tool. You will need to reuse the OEM roll pin.
The OEM front sight blade is secured by a roll pin that should be driven out with the .050 cup tip punch. The pin should come out easily with several light taps. Once the pin is removed, you can tap the front sight blade out with the piece of plywood and a small hammer. Place the plywood on the back of the blade and tap it forward with the hammer until the front edge of the blade clears the barrel, then using the plywood again, tap the front of the blade upwards. Use Kroil or similar if the blade is difficult to remove. You don’t have to and shouldn’t have to use pliers to remove the blade.
You may want to very lightly sand the sides of the HiViz tab where it will sit into the groove of the front sight mount on the 617. This will help with the installation because right out of the box, the HiViz will be very, very snug. However, don’t take off too much from the tab. The HiViz was made to be somewhat snug in the mount. Also, remove a little material from the base of the HiViz tab to ensure a flush fit between the sight mount on the 617 and the bottom edges of the HiViz. You’ll only need to take off very little from the bottom of the tab (1/64” or so). Next “eyeball” the HiViz so that the front end looks somewhat flush with the front barrel and start to sit the HiViz (by hand) into the groove of the front sight mount (note the optic side of the HiViz faces the rear sight). Place the plywood so that it is flat on top of the HiViz ensuring that it covers both ends (to prevent damage to the fiber optic cylinder). Gently tap the plywood until the HiViz bottoms out in the mount. Hold the 617 up to a light source and check if the HiViz is seated flush with the sight mount. If you see light coming from between the HiViz and the mount, you will need to take a little more material off the bottom of the HiViz tab. Remove the HiViz from the mount using the same technique that was used to remove the OEM blade and take off a little more material from the base of the tab (light sanding may do it).
Reinsert the HiViz into the mount with the plywood and hammer as describe above if it was removed for adjustment. Check that the front of the HiViz is flush with the front of the barrel. If not, use the plywood and hammer to adjust horizontally as necessary. Finally, lay the plywood on the top of the HiViz and tap lightly to ensure it is flush with the mount on the 617. Now you’re ready to drill the hole through the HiViz tab for the roll pin.
Use the existing holes in the front sight mount as a guide to drill the hole in the HiViz tab, start on one side of the 617 sight mount. Use a low/medium low speed on the Dremel and carefully start to drill a hole in the HiViz using very light pressure on the Dremel. Be careful not elongate the hole of the mount. Drill about halfway then drill from the other side of the mount. Take your time. The HiViz tab is soft metal and it won’t take much to drill a hole straight through. CAUTION: TOO MUCH PRESSURE OR HIGH SPEED WILL BREAK THE DRILL BIT. Use the .050 punch to check that the hole is aligned then insert the roll pin and you’re done!
Note: Some use a .054 drill bit for the roll pin hole but I went to a .053 drill bit instead to get a snug fit when reusing the OEM roll pin. The plywood block was used as a “tool” because it’s soft and not likely to damage OEM blade or the HiViz.
You will need to drill a hole in the HiViz base tab for the roll pin to install it on a S&W 617. You can pay a smith to install it for $20 - $30 or you can install it yourself if you have the right tools and skill level. I installed the HiViz on a S&W 617 in about an hour. Here are instructions if you plan to DIY:
Tools/Materials needed: .050 cup tip punch (Brownells); a 2”x2”x3/4” piece of plywood; small hammer; 1.35 mm (.053) drill bit with a 1/8” shank (get at least two drill bits, available on eBay for about $1.99 each) and a variable speed Dremel tool. You will need to reuse the OEM roll pin.
The OEM front sight blade is secured by a roll pin that should be driven out with the .050 cup tip punch. The pin should come out easily with several light taps. Once the pin is removed, you can tap the front sight blade out with the piece of plywood and a small hammer. Place the plywood on the back of the blade and tap it forward with the hammer until the front edge of the blade clears the barrel, then using the plywood again, tap the front of the blade upwards. Use Kroil or similar if the blade is difficult to remove. You don’t have to and shouldn’t have to use pliers to remove the blade.
You may want to very lightly sand the sides of the HiViz tab where it will sit into the groove of the front sight mount on the 617. This will help with the installation because right out of the box, the HiViz will be very, very snug. However, don’t take off too much from the tab. The HiViz was made to be somewhat snug in the mount. Also, remove a little material from the base of the HiViz tab to ensure a flush fit between the sight mount on the 617 and the bottom edges of the HiViz. You’ll only need to take off very little from the bottom of the tab (1/64” or so). Next “eyeball” the HiViz so that the front end looks somewhat flush with the front barrel and start to sit the HiViz (by hand) into the groove of the front sight mount (note the optic side of the HiViz faces the rear sight). Place the plywood so that it is flat on top of the HiViz ensuring that it covers both ends (to prevent damage to the fiber optic cylinder). Gently tap the plywood until the HiViz bottoms out in the mount. Hold the 617 up to a light source and check if the HiViz is seated flush with the sight mount. If you see light coming from between the HiViz and the mount, you will need to take a little more material off the bottom of the HiViz tab. Remove the HiViz from the mount using the same technique that was used to remove the OEM blade and take off a little more material from the base of the tab (light sanding may do it).
Reinsert the HiViz into the mount with the plywood and hammer as describe above if it was removed for adjustment. Check that the front of the HiViz is flush with the front of the barrel. If not, use the plywood and hammer to adjust horizontally as necessary. Finally, lay the plywood on the top of the HiViz and tap lightly to ensure it is flush with the mount on the 617. Now you’re ready to drill the hole through the HiViz tab for the roll pin.
Use the existing holes in the front sight mount as a guide to drill the hole in the HiViz tab, start on one side of the 617 sight mount. Use a low/medium low speed on the Dremel and carefully start to drill a hole in the HiViz using very light pressure on the Dremel. Be careful not elongate the hole of the mount. Drill about halfway then drill from the other side of the mount. Take your time. The HiViz tab is soft metal and it won’t take much to drill a hole straight through. CAUTION: TOO MUCH PRESSURE OR HIGH SPEED WILL BREAK THE DRILL BIT. Use the .050 punch to check that the hole is aligned then insert the roll pin and you’re done!
Note: Some use a .054 drill bit for the roll pin hole but I went to a .053 drill bit instead to get a snug fit when reusing the OEM roll pin. The plywood block was used as a “tool” because it’s soft and not likely to damage OEM blade or the HiViz.
Kernel Crittenden
US Veteran
Although you are replying to a 3 year old thread, great instructions! Question. Why do you leave the new blade in the gun when you drill the new pin hole? Isn't there a danger of damaging the front sight base? Why not remove the front sight blade and drill it outside of the gun?
Second question. Older guns have a solid pin. Would this make any difference to your instructions?
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I recently purchased the S&W 617 for my basic pistol classes. I didn't like the front sight that came with the revolver because I found it difficult for students to get good sight alignment and sight picture. I decided to replace the OEM front sight with a HiViz and went online searching for information on its installation. I found that quality installation tips were somewhat lacking and at times erroneous. That's why I joined this forum to share my experience to help others looking for similar information.
I discovered that the metal of the HiViz was softer than the revolver while fitting it to the mount. It didn't take much to remove material from the bottom of the HiViz tab for a flush fit. In fact, I used a disposable fingernail emery board and 600 sandpaper to do it. That being said, I used the existing holes in the mount as a guide to drill into the HiViz tab while it was sitting in the mount in the exact position that I wanted it to be. I had no problems since I used a .053 bit and worked on from both sides of the mount. I would advise NOT to drill the hole straight though from one side of the mount. If you do, you may hit metal from the mount on the opposite side and this may cause the bit to break because the revolver metal is harder than the HiViz tab.
I considered drilling the hole while the HiViz was off the revolver but the hole would have to be perfectly centered otherwise the HiViz may not fit exactly where you wanted. The other thing is that the HiViz is small and it may be difficult to secure it while drilling the hole.
I’m sure a solid pin will fit in a .053 hole because the metal on the HiViz is soft. However, if in doubt, use a .054 bit instead.
I discovered that the metal of the HiViz was softer than the revolver while fitting it to the mount. It didn't take much to remove material from the bottom of the HiViz tab for a flush fit. In fact, I used a disposable fingernail emery board and 600 sandpaper to do it. That being said, I used the existing holes in the mount as a guide to drill into the HiViz tab while it was sitting in the mount in the exact position that I wanted it to be. I had no problems since I used a .053 bit and worked on from both sides of the mount. I would advise NOT to drill the hole straight though from one side of the mount. If you do, you may hit metal from the mount on the opposite side and this may cause the bit to break because the revolver metal is harder than the HiViz tab.
I considered drilling the hole while the HiViz was off the revolver but the hole would have to be perfectly centered otherwise the HiViz may not fit exactly where you wanted. The other thing is that the HiViz is small and it may be difficult to secure it while drilling the hole.
I’m sure a solid pin will fit in a .053 hole because the metal on the HiViz is soft. However, if in doubt, use a .054 bit instead.
Lou_NC
Member
Interesting. I'm a pistol instructor as well, and have found the exact opposite to be true with my students. Using the illustrations below, my students quickly pick up the concept of sight alignment and sight picture. I use a 617 with stock patridge sights. Personally I think it's best to teach sighting concepts by using plain black target sights, and let the students try other sights only after mastering the fundamentals using basic target sights.
This is not intended as a criticism of your approach......rather simply to relay that I've had good success over the years instructing with this technique.
Lou
Aegis: welcome to the forum!!! I think that you will like it here. This place is a fantastic place for gun folks to share information, opinions and knowledge. Most of the folks here are courteous, collegial, and their experience spans generations. You'll find nationally known names from the firearms world rubbing elbows with the newest beginners. I only joined back in May, but have used this as a resource for many years before I became a member.
You just posted a great first post. Remember, not everyone will agree with each other, but that diversity of opinion frequently results in expanding horizons, and, well, sometimes not. Welcome aboard!!!
You just posted a great first post. Remember, not everyone will agree with each other, but that diversity of opinion frequently results in expanding horizons, and, well, sometimes not. Welcome aboard!!!
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