Revolver Group Buy - First Poll - Interest Level

[clevolver]

Getting 500 or 5000 people to agree on the exact details of the design of the revolver is not feasible. Even if by miracle we managed to achieve consensus, the final design would be a set of compromises.

This project needs a leader to decide on the design if it's to have any hope of success. You'll notice that when a commemorative piece is commissioned, the people buying it only have "yes/no" level of input in the design. The design is what the designers make it; the customer decides "yes, I'll buy that" or "no, I'll pass".

I say this to point out that the poll response options are not very helpful to gauging actual interest.

It's tough to ask a group of people "Would you buy a revolver of undetermined design?"

I'd like to see a poll more like this:

1) Generally speaking, are you interested in participating in a a S-W Forum revolver group buy? [Y|N]

2) Are you more interested in a commemorative piece, or a practical piece?

3) Here is a design by [designer]: [list of design attributes] If this were the design selected, would you buy it? [Y|N]

4) (Repeat Question 3) for additional design candidates, as needed).​

As to the type of design I'd like to see, I'd prefer a practical gun to a commemorative. By that, I mean something I'd actually fire, not something to look at.

That said, for me to be really interested, the design settled upon would need to be something special enough for me to sit up and take notice. I don't know that there is such a design that doesn't already exist.

 

[H Richard]

What you might want to pursue, rather than 5000 guns, is a Special Engraving package for a particular revolver, such as: S&W Forum Members 2014, or some such. Then the member could individually order the particular gun and the Engraving package. I think this may have more possibility than a special run of a gun with special features.

 

[Hapworth]

If previous posts stating the revolver must be built out of existing parts are correct, this is an example of what can not be built...

Not existing parts -- existing capabilities, i.e., the CNC software, machines, tooling, etc; virtually all of that is at the ready for a fixed sight 3" Model 19, and what isn't is largely a couple lines of code away.

 

[lhump1961]

Very interesting. My take...

1) Talo (or another) would have to be involved...they are set up for it. I'm convinced there is much more than I can imagine involved in a deal like this. Just the amount of $$ and the distribution is staggering! If Talo handled it they would be in charge and it would have to be a gun they wanted as well...they aren't in the business of doing favors...they have to see a return. They would take it over and insure we have ours reserved with pre-payment probably required.

2) We here would have to understand that the final product probably isn't going to be the "perfect" gun for most of us but instead a special gun that we are connected to and would have a great story. How often does a person get a chance at that? I can't speak for anyone but myself but I already have most of the stuff I "have" to own and just add other desirable stuff as opportunity arises. This would be a neat deal and I would participate even if the gun isn't something I might not normally buy or already have something similar.

3) Reading the replies we will never reach a consensus on everything but the "must have's" seem to be a high polish blue no lock 3" gun with no commemorative markings...special serial # would be cool. Hell, a 3" revolver in almost anything would get my support!

If this actually happened we would have to support it from the standpoint of owning it for what it is and not expect it to be our "dream" gun in every way.

 

[Peak53]

2 Cents. Why not the 66-8 (9?), stainless, 3", NIL, special serial number that might be on the way, anyhow. Well, except for the NIL. This avoids the current SW allergy to high polish blue and is a popular design in a desirable barrel length. We could be the first on the block.

 

[gumpys]

I do not want to sound like a negative nancy since I think the idea is cool, I just do not see it happening at all. First off I think you would have your hands full getting 100 members to agree on a gun and get payment on, let alone 500.. Then, Talo mentioned you need 5,000 for minimum order, they are not going to allow a group to pick out a custom gun and only order 500 units and then tell Talo well cover the other 4500 units, never going to happen. Again I think it is a cool idea, and would like to own one, but your better off with what H RICHARD mentioned.

 

[justintyme]

I picked some, but honestly I'm open minded enough that I would buy just about anything without a lock, in .357 or larger caliber. Do it with a 3" Barrel and something I really like and I will probably buy 2, one for my son. If however it does have a lock in it, then I would only buy if it was something I really like, like a 586 f comp......I am tempted to buy one of those any way because have you seen how much the prelock versions bring??? Might be a very popular gun if you could get it without the lock and the Distributor wants something almost guaranteed to sell.

 

[Usmc5811]

Harrish per our P.M. What ever I can do to help just ask. I have been watching this hoping it will happen. It does seem like the consensus is a 3" barrel and no lock would work for me. And as far as caliber goes 357, 44, 45, 40, or 9 would work for me. We will all have to make some sacrifices, but I hope we could make a decision seeing as we are all adults.

 

[Jerry N.]

One of the things that needs to be discussed is exactly what the inscription will be on the gun and where it will be. I'm likely to buy any gun, but the inscription is like a tattoo - doesn't come off. Can we firm that up pretty quick? Frankly, I'd be more interested if it didn't say anything. That it is a special gun that the members of this forum agree is a great example of a certain type of gun (carry, target, large bore . . .) is more exciting to me than whether or not it says anything on it. I like best the idea of just having the S/N start with SWF to signify the relationship to this forum.

 

[Hapworth]

One of the things that needs to be discussed is exactly what the inscription will be on the gun and where it will be. I'm likely to buy any gun, but the inscription is like a tattoo - doesn't come off. Can we firm that up pretty quick? Frankly, I'd be more interested if it didn't say anything. That it is a special gun that the members of this forum agree is a great example of a certain type of gun (carry, target, large bore . . .) is more exciting to me than whether or not it says anything on it. I like best the idea of just having the S/N start with SWF to signify the relationship to this forum.

I'm with you on this -- no inscription. Classic S&W roll marks only, and a specialized serial number.

 

[Irn-Bru]

While I agree that this will be very hard to find the numbers willing to do this, I do think it's doable. To get this off the ground it will take a lot of leg work. Posting this project on numerous gun forums to generate more interest and bumping the numbers is a must. Then I would contact some of the big gun chains like Cabelas, Gander Mountain and others. Then contacting some of the smaller stores that have a S&W following. Like I said doable, but a lot of hard work ahead of us to make this work.

 

[k22fan]

HarrishMasher,

If we were doing a group buy of identical vehicles the first decision would be to pick a general category: sports car, sedan, mini-van, 2 ton truck etc. I suggest your second poll ask what general size of revolver we want: realatively large or small CCW, service size, or long barrel target & sport size, and for the latter .22 LR or centerfire.

Realistically the revolver has to be designed around a frame S&W is currently producing. There are only four frames in their blued steel classics line: fixed sight K centerfire, adjustable sight K rimfire, adjustable sight L centerfire, and adjustable sight N centerfire. I believe those who want bright polish blue have to design around one of those. S&W is done making replacement barrels for those that crack so I doubt they will ever again squeeze .357 into one piece barrel K frames. For a blued revolver with an old fashioned fixed sight milled into the top strap that leaves only model 10 .38s. Night Guard fixed sights fit the machine cuts in all 586s that are new enough to be drilled and tapped. That's the only affordable way to get a fixed sight blued .357.

I don't expect my proposal to go anywhere but it's fun to throw it out. Bore some Classic 27 tapered barrels and cylinders to 10 mm and create a 10 mm Mountain Gun. While .357s aren't quit a dime a dozen, they are everywhere. It's hard to assemble a .357 that's not very similar to one you can already buy. A limited run of 10 mm Mountain Guns would excite the forum. Non reloaders could fire .40 S&W which is less expensive than .38 special. Reloaders could warm the 10 mm back up to its original power level. I'd buy two.

 

[David R]

I did a couple group buys. Its a ton of work and difficult. I doubt we will ever get a gun enough people agree on. Its worth a try and I commend the OP for doing this.

The money thing is another hurdle. 500 guns at 1,000 each is one half million dollars. (so $400.00 per gun? $200,000.00.) That is a lot of money to be responsible for.

I checked the box that says "I will buy no matter what" then I get to see what I bought later. Ya never know.

David

 

[Stephanie B]

Can S&W sell a no-lock revolver in Canada? If they can, a 4.25" barrel is legal there and opens up our frozen buddies as a market for the gun. If they can't sell it there without a lock, then I do like the idea of a 3" K-frame .357.

Given the 5K piece requirement, we're more in the position of suggesting to TALO that "if you build it, we will come" than we are in trying to organize a group buy with S&W.

 

[DR505]

I don't expect my proposal to go anywhere but it's fun to throw it out. Bore some Classic 27 tapered barrels and cylinders to 10 mm and create a 10 mm Mountain Gun. While .357s aren't quit a dime a dozen, they are everywhere. It's hard to assemble a .357 that's not very similar to one you can already buy. A limited run of 10 mm Mountain Guns would excite the forum. Non reloaders could fire .40 S&W which is less expensive than .38 special. Reloaders could warm the 10 mm back up to its original power level. I'd buy two.

I'd buy three in 10mm!

 

[mg357]

I would go in on a group revolver purchase but only under the following conditions each member of the group should have their voice heard and that the revolver being bought was a gun that everyone wanted to buy.

For example if the revolver being bought was a S&W Model 10 every member of the group would have to agree that the Model 10 was the gun that they wanted to buy that way no feelings get hurt and no one gets disappointed.

 

[Shooter 9]

47 responses and 143 votes. A little bit shy of what we need..LOL

 

[Hapworth]

47 responses and 143 votes. A little bit shy of what we need..LOL

Clearly you've done your part getting the word out.

Would be nice if we could get this stickied in bold atop all the forums -- would easily generate more responses.

 

[buck460XVR]

47 responses and 143 votes. A little bit shy of what we need..LOL

....and from experience with fund raising and marketing, one can expect about 30% of those folks who originally commit, to buy. Not till you have money in your hand can you count them.


I too am not trying to be a naysayer. I believe Lew Horton quit with the S&W special runs because of the 5000 gun minimum. That's a lot of guns. Talo will not take 4500 guns that it does not feel will sell. So one will have to stay fairly mainstream to keep their interest. A better idea might be to see what Talo has in mind for future runs and try to get special serial numbers and/or a group buy price from them on that run. Maybe they might even listen to suggestions to specific wants and models. I dunno. I have one of their 3-5-7 686s because it had what I wanted....a 5'' barrel and non-fluted cylinder. That run lasted for years and was even advertised on the S&W website. I bought mine over 4 years ago and they still show them.

 

[qballwill]

....and from experience with fund raising and marketing, one can expect about 30% of those folks who originally commit, to buy. Not till you have money in your hand can you count them.


I too am not trying to be a naysayer. I believe Lew Horton quit with the S&W special runs because of the 5000 gun minimum. That's a lot of guns. Talo will not take 4500 guns that it does not feel will sell. So one will have to stay fairly mainstream to keep their interest. A better idea might be to see what Talo has in mind for future runs and try to get special serial numbers and/or a group buy price from them on that run. Maybe they might even listen to suggestions to specific wants and models. I dunno. I have one of their 3-5-7 686s because it had what I wanted....a 5'' barrel and non-fluted cylinder. That run lasted for years and was even advertised on the S&W website. I bought mine over 4 years ago and they still show them.

I can see that. Find out what Talo has in mind for future orders and see if they can be tweaked by giving them suggestions.

 

[DWalt]

None of this will ever happen. Any reason this discussion cannot stop here and now?

 

[Watchdog]

None of this will ever happen. Any reason this discussion cannot stop here and now?

Seriously? What harm does it do to talk about something? Are you just having a bad day or something?

 

[Hapworth]

None of this will ever happen. Any reason this discussion cannot stop here and now?

That's quite the can-do attitude you have there, D. Presume you're still living in a cave using flint for fire.

 

[mchom]

I think we all know its a long shot but I say go for it. Until we have exhausted the possibility. It looks like a few folks especially the OP are investing a lot of time (Its much appreciated...Thank You!!!).

There is a slim chance BUT we might get a very cool gun out of this. I think its worth the effort. But I do understand some of the naysayers probably just don't want to be disappointed.
Try to stay positive

 

[Herknav]

I can see that. Find out what Talo has in mind for future orders and see if they can be tweaked by giving them suggestions.

^^^^THIS.^^^^ TALO does precisely this for a living. They know what the market likes. I'd get some ideas from them, float those ideas to the membership, and go from there.

 

[Shooter 9]

Clearly you've done your part getting the word out.

Mark me down for 1 (one) gun.

 

[Engineer1911]

Special Engraving

What you might want to pursue, rather than 5000 guns, is a Special Engraving package for a particular revolver, such as: S&W Forum Members 2014, or some such. Then the member could individually order the particular gun and the Engraving package. I think this may have more possibility than a special run of a gun with special features.

The Solution:

I'll send my no-lock S&W revolver that is exactly what I want (M629, 5" full-lug barrel, unfluted cylinder) to S&W and purchase just the custom engraving package . Now can we sell 500 or 5,000 custom engraving packages for no lock guns?

I have one IL revolver: M617 with 10 shot SS cylinder and 4" barrel ($550 used) because I wasn't going to buy a pre-lock M617 4" barrel for $1K off GunBroker.

I admire determination to bring a difficult project to fruition. I posted a link to the original thread on the S&WCA Forum and none of the replies were positive or hopeful.

I thank the originators for their determination.

 

[thorbjorn]

I've only been lurking....First time posting, but the idea of a blue and walnut .357 or .44 without the lock motivated me to take the plunge and post.

 

[Grayfox]

I have my doubts. Frankly I just can't see enough people agreeing on what the gun is to be. But, what the hell, might as well let it play out.
I'd really like a 3" L-frame in .45 Colt.

 

[BCDWYO]

The required numbers are daunting, but I'm gonna hang around and support the concept as long as it lives! It will be interesting to see how many players there are when we are asked to vote with our wallets!