Rust in my melonite barrel or is it copper fouling? *Pictures added*

[PainterlyShotgroup]

So I just got my Sport and went to clean it and noticed some discoloration in the chamber as well as what looks like rust along the rifling close to the muzzle. I searched here and didn't find anything about it so I thought I might ask you guys to see if any one else has had this on their rifles.

I'm using Frog Lube to clean it and all the patches come out black and not rust colored. It's a brand new rifle, but I know they test fire them at the factory, plus I'm sure they put oil on before they ship them out.

 

[ZeroTolerance6]

Mine is not discolored in any way. Did running patches through it help, or is it still there? Did you run a brush or barrel snake through it, or just patches?

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

Mine is not discolored in any way. Did running patches through it help, or is it still there? Did you run a brush or barrel snake through it, or just patches?

First I ran a bore snake through, then I pushed patches soaked in the Frog Lube through. Would alternate wet/dry a few times then wet again and let it sit. Then I ran a brush through, then one of those mops and then another patch. They have all been coming out black to varying degrees. The rust colored stuff is still there.

I'm not sure if Frog Lube would turn the copper blue on the patch or not. Perhaps I should use something else? Is it possible I got a bad barrel?

 

[bigedp51]

Get some foam bore cleaner and see if these dark areas disappear from the bore and chamber. I have read postings in the last few weeks where Russian steel case ammo was causing corrosion when the ammo was marked non-corrosive.

 

[oneyeopn]

I have had some copper fouling but usually it cleans right up.

 

[JaPes]

Get some Hoppes Copper Solvent, run a sopping wet patch down the barrel, and let it sit the requisite 24 hours. Next day, run a patch lightly moistened with the copper solvent. If you see green on the patch and the discoloration is off the barrel, it was copper fouling.

If it is rust, call S&W.

 

[MPDC]

Two points. Frog Lube needs to have copper solvent used occasionally. The other is that rust has been reported (rarely) on the XD forums. XD s are also melonite treated. It is not a rustproof coating but rust resistant. I use Frog Lube and have had no rust or copper obvious in my bbl. but it is chromed, not melonite. Try a copper solvent as advised in this Amazon review......................................

"Just like to do a follow up review since my first one. I had plenty of opportunities to test frog lube's ability to remove copper fouling. Let me just say this first, all in all this is by far the best lube I have used. It removes lead fouling like nothing else. On top of that, it's environmentally friendly. It however does not have the ability to remove copper fouling. Being that this product repels petroleum products, there are still plenty of potent copper removers out there that are petroleum free. Either Barnes CR10 or KG-12, etc will get the job done for those seeking to remove copper fouling. If you do not shoot copper jacketed bullets, then frog lube is a complete gun care package for your firearms. I still keep my petroleum free copper solvents around in addition to the frog lube just in case I need to get rid the copper fouling."

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

I guess I'll have to get some copper solvent and hope this is the issue. I know S&W has great customer service, but I'd hate to have to send it back to them so soon.

One thing that gets me though is that this was (supposedly) a new firearm. So I don't get why there would be any fouling in the barrel at this point. But I'm also not sure just what the factory testing procedures are. However, I did come across another posting on this forum regarding an M&P9 (also Melonite) that someone bought new which had copper fouling in it.
I just hope I'm being paranoid, it would suck if the Melonite on my barrel was defective. The Melonite 1/8 twist barrel was really the major reason for my trading up.
I know S&W would make good on it though.

 

[Dragon88]

You are being paranoid. Clean the copper fouling out your barrel instead of imagining problems.

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

You are being paranoid. Clean the copper fouling out your barrel instead of imagining problems.

I like where your head's at!

 

[storeyteller]

You are being paranoid. Clean the copper fouling out your barrel instead of imagining problems.

When you hear hoofbeats look for horses not zebras.

 

[oneyeopn]

You are being paranoid. Clean the copper fouling out your barrel instead of imagining problems.

I knew I was missing a name today....Dragon88 has always been a source of great information also!!!

 

[rojodiablo]

Get some foam bore cleaner and see if these dark areas disappear from the bore and chamber. I have read postings in the last few weeks where Russian steel case ammo was causing corrosion when the ammo was marked non-corrosive.

Do NOT use foaming bore cleaner in the AR 15 platform. The stuff stays sticky, and will cause issues with the gas port.

The modern Russian ammo is not corrosive today, and has not been for several years.
When the rifle is shipped, it has oil in it, which is applied after test firing. In general, you are going to see some dark patches for a short while, it is normal. If you use a copper cutting cleaner, you will see serious green/ blue & black on your patches if there is much copper present. The cleaner changes color and is an indicator that there is copper present.

Remember; just because you see a little color on a patch does not mean you have 'Copper fouling' in your barrel. The real test for this is going to boil down to accuracy tests/ grouping. While it is desirable, a gin clear patch is not the end all, be all for rifle cleanliness and proper function.

Frog lube tends to collect tons of goop, crud and powder in AR 15's. I tried it, and switched back to Slip, and similar light oils. They run much, much cleaner thru the shooting I do.

 

[VMaxSplat]

It has been my thought for some time that many people fret to much over cleaning AR type rifle barrels. Unfortunately, the "M&P Sport" doesn't appear to have a chrome lined bore (like a proper AR type weapon should), so copper fouling, rust, and barrel life will be much more of an issue than with a mil spec barrel.

The unlined barrel will need to be cleaned after every use to prevent rust. Copper will need periodic removal, but don't go overboard with it. I'd recommend "normal" cleanings with CLP and limited use of copper solvents. A bore snake is great for leaving a trace of CLP to help prevent rust.

 

[oneyeopn]

It has been my thought for some time that many people fret to much over cleaning AR type rifle barrels. Unfortunately, the "M&P Sport" doesn't appear to have a chrome lined bore (like a proper AR type weapon should), so copper fouling, rust, and barrel life will be much more of an issue than with a mil spec barrel.

The unlined barrel will need to be cleaned after every use to prevent rust. Copper will need periodic removal, but don't go overboard with it. I'd recommend "normal" cleanings with CLP and limited use of copper solvents. A bore snake is great for leaving a trace of CLP to help prevent rust.

Sir I must disagree with you seriously, If you read the independent engineering studies on Melonite it surpasses chrome lining in every study and case. It is harder, it has more lubricity, it wont flake or wear out. It is not a plating but a treatment that actually is thicker than the chrome lining and according to the engineering studies it is rust resistant also to the level of chrome plating. The molecules are changed such that iron oxide (rust) wont adhere to them. If you will look under the sticky posts for the one titled "barrel specs for sport" you will find a bunch of these studies. Every so often we have someone come in and try to extol the virtues of chrome plating. At the time these weapons were designed chrome lining was the best that they could do. Metallurgy has come a long way since and the result is Melonite or Salt Nitride Carburization. Please take some time to read it. If you notice S&W originally put this barrel on the Sport now it is going to a lot of the other models and some of the biggest names in Barrel manufacturing are starting to use it as well. Have a good day!

Here is the link: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifle/213731-barrel-specs-sport.html

 

[VMaxSplat]

It would probably take a metallurgical engineer to really tell us about melonite and its properties, but the fact remains, the mil spec is hard chrome. Another fact remains. In a quick run down of S&W's "law enforcement" M&P15 product line, I am mostly seeing chromed bores, no melonite. The melonite treatment seems to be reserved for the consumer grade rifles. I must confess though, until your post I thought melonite was an exterior treatment and the OPs bore was unlined.

I've never shot melonite barrels, but do have many rounds thru various chrome lined barrels. A good chrome barrel is accurate, cleans easily, doesn't rust and lasts quite a while.

 

[oneyeopn]

If you read the treatises in the link you will learn a lot, they do actual comparisons between hard chrome and Melonite. The Melonite wins hands down. Most Police departments have to go by Mil-spec standards when they buy AR type rifles. There are also a lot of departments buying the Sport. In a couple of different forums there are comparisons being done between Colts with the Chrome lined barrel and the Sport. I honestly am waiting to see what failures if any are suffered between the two. The Sport has already shown itself to be twice as accurate in both tests. A lot of people drink the mil-spec koolaid....just remember that spec is close to 50 years old. B52 bombers are also that old but you don't see any of them running around with the avionics that they had when they were new. Just because the Military doesn't want to go through the hassle of a barrel material re-eval it doesn't make their spec the best. I now have two melonite treated barrels one from S&W and another from AR Performance. I love them both. Also it is hard as heck to scratch them....

 

[MPDC]

FWIW, there were several reports of rust problems on the XD forums. Springfield Armory XDs are spec'ed with Melonite treatment for both the slides and bbl.s

I own two XDs, an early "M" model and a more recent "SC" carry weapon. I have treated both with Froglube, wear the SC concealed daily in humidity and exposed to sweat and have never had any rust at all. My AR has been treated with FL too and cleans easily. I do clean all my weapons after use and run the bolt on the AR wet with FL, just as I would with any CLP or lube.

I feel the Sport bbl. benefits most from the twist type rather than the melonite but think it is a good process. Any bbl. can show surface rust from abuse or lack of maintenance, IMHO.

 

[Plazzman]

S&W has just added two new M&P 15 rifles to their list. (Model M&P15 MOE Mid MAGPUL® ) which has a melonite barrels. Check their website.

 

[VMaxSplat]

A lot of people drink the mil-spec koolaid....just remember that spec is close to 50 years old.

No koolaid here, just 15 years of satisfaction with hard chromed AR barrels. I understand that melonite is working for you and that is great to hear. Your feedback is appreciated and I have learned new things about melonite from your helpful posts.

My early XD40 slide will rust if you look at it the wrong way. It may be pre-melonite though. That is a distant memory, but it seems like the early guns were finished different than the later production units. Is that correct?

It may just be that I am suspicious by nature when it comes to things like this. Let me explain. Hard chrome is a separate process. Wouldn't melonite treatment be done to the bore and exterior of a barrel at the same time? If so, that eliminated a process step (and increased profit margins?) in manufacture. I can't help but wonder if that is really the motivation behind deviating from the milspec.

If melonite proves itself over the next few years as being better than chrome, I'll eventually change. To prove that in my mind, the US Military will need to adopt it as the new standard.

Until then, I'll personally stick with hard chrome because it has worked for me over the tens of thousands of rounds of 556 downrange in the past years. It has also worked for our military for the past 50 years.

Back to the OP, I wouldn't worry to much about a small amount of copper fouling in an assault rifle barrel. If it gets heavy, there are product readily available that will get it under control.

Happy shooting.