S&W 1905 year of manufacture??
- Thread starter Zathras
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I have seen serial numbers and corresponding dates jump around all helter skelter in this range of number but if I had one shot at making a guess, I would guess mid-to-late 1931.
I'm curious what other folks have to say. Condition on yours looks really nice!
I'm curious what other folks have to say. Condition on yours looks really nice!
Alk8944
US Veteran
Assuming the stocks on OPs revolver are original the gun dates between 1910-1920. Anyway the stocks do!
But, the SN puts the gun around 1938.
But, the SN puts the gun around 1938.
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Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! .38 M&Ps within a few hundred serial numbers were shipping in Mid-1931. So, I concur with Sevens guess. And, yes, the grips are from 1910-20.
The stocks are from the 1910s and the gun is from the early 1930s, so not a match. 1930s guns had a silver medallion. The logo on the left side of the frame looks "smudged" and if so it has been refinished. Another closeup picture of that area would help.
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The S& W stamp does not look smudged to me. Looks pretty detailed to the eye..There is some slight cylinder drag, but othe than that, looks in beautiful condition, and the bore is excellent to say the least... As far as the grips, I am no expert, but I have seen and been told that S&W's grips varied and not always one style throughout the years, even with the same model...but again, you gents would know more about that than I...that's why I posted the gun to begin with here..
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DWalt
Member
The S&W frame logo does appear smudgy even in the later picture which would suggest a refinish. I would also expect a brighter and shinier finish were it original. Maybe it is just the picture. That logo location ceased being used after 1936 so it was manufactured no later than that. It is indisputable that the wood grips on it are from the second decade of the 20th Century and therefore cannot be original. Guns of the Depression era are difficult to date from the SN alone, but a letter would provide an exact shipping date. During the Depression that could easily be years after the manufacture date. There is also no doubt that it shipped sometime in the 1930s, more than likely the earlier 1930s. I suggest you remove the grips to see if there is something like a date stamped on the grip frame, maybe like 2.52. That would mean it had been sent back to S&W for service in February 1952, possibly including a refinish. One other item. The shape of he extractor rod knob is typical of guns made from the late 1920s into the post-WWII period. In summary, what you have is likely to be a .38 M&P (NOT a 1905) from the early 1930s with period-incorrect grips and possibly refinished. Do not feel bad about the grips as they are fairly desirable.
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Hard to tell from that picture but I don't see the flattened hammer stud and pins and rounded edges that would be typical for a non-factory refinish. Might be a factory refinish and checking for a date stamp on the left side of the frame under the grips is good advice. The correct grips show up on eBay occasionally and here too and the value probably wouldn't be too much different than the ones that are on it.
Jeff
SWCA #1457
I can't say I understand your definition of "smudgy"..I can say that the stamp /logo is well defined and indented. there are NO 'off focus"/smudgy" or undefined areas of this logo anywhere that I can see. The finish is excellent, but does have some slight muzzle wear and cylinder drag and a few very tiny dings on the top strap. upon removing the grips there are no numbers or codes anywhere to be seen on the frame. in further research, this strongly resembles The revolver at westpoint museum that Herman Goering surrendered at the end of WW II that is on display there. And based on his serial # his was made in 1934, and his grips has silver medallions. I was aiming for this gun to be made in that time period, so I am happy with the purchase.
Thanks to all for your help in this..but I am wondering: since the finish is SO nice on this, does that mean guns of this period, aside of the grip issue, can't have a finish this nice??? must it always be suspect that this condition would indicate the possibilty of a refinish?? I recently bought another 1905 with a finish almost identical in condition that was this clean and lustrous...
DWalt
Member
A high condition pair of 1930s style grips can be found but don't expect to get them cheap. Production of S&W revolvers was low during the Depression, and availability of 1930s grips today mirrors that. If your main desire is for a Depression era M&P, your wish came true.
The condition is pretty much determined by how they were used, stored, and cared for. This one from 1923 looks like it just left the factory. Probably spent most of the last 100 years in someone's drawer. . .in its original box.
Jeff
https://flic.kr/p/2pgvn1R https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/ 
https://flic.kr/p/2pgtES8 by https://www.flickr.com/photos/194934231@N03/I am not attempting to argue even a little bit... but I am absolutely seeking knowledge here on this part I've quoted.
What is the distinction between a .38 M&P and a 1905 as you've said?
The only S&W that I have ever lettered is the serial number 357xxx that was my Grandfather's, he gave it to me when I graduated high school. It dates to 1921 and in the letter I got from Roy Jinks in 1999, he calls it specifically:
"Your revolver is classified as the .38 Hand Ejector, Military & Police Model of 1905 Fourth Change."
What's the difference between a .38 M&P and a 1905, and when did this change occur?
Stunning and gorgeous!
DWalt
Member
S&W abandoned the Model of 1905 (and Model of 1902) terminology in 1915. Thereafter, the same revolver was called the .38 or .32-20 Military and Police Revolver (square or round butt) in all company catalogs and advertising. Insofar as S&W was concerned, the "Model of 1905" effectively ceased to exist. However, there remain many collectors who continue to use the Model of 1905 terminology for all similar revolvers made up to WWII. It is not really incorrect as the revolver itself remained much the same as it was in 1905 (but for several engineering design modifications) for the whole time. But the fact remains that "Model of 1905" is not what S&W called it. I cannot explain exactly why the historical letters continue to call those post-1915 revolvers as Models of 1905 because I do not know. Perhaps somebody reading this is aware of and can explain the reason. Maybe it's just tradition. Similarly, the fourth and earlier "changes" were never part of S&W's factory nomenclature system. They are purely collector terms. Yet they appear in historical letters and are also in various reference sources just as though they had been used by S&W.
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This revolver I have, has a near Mirror luster..very bright and shiny...It must have been well cared for..In addition, I called the seller I bought this from, and he explained to me that the individual he bought it from, had it in his collection for over 40 years in that condition, as he bought it, and does not believe in any way that it was refinished....
McHenry & Roper were responsible for the naming convention for most models of S&W. Their book was printed in 1958. Roper was the head of the S&W Service Department and McHenry was a Special Agent for the Bureau of Investigation and a S&W collector. They developed the terminology that was used by Roy Jinks in 1966 to write his book. Both used the Model 1905 right up to WWII. On the other hand, the company dropped the year, perhaps to not "age" the gun in the eyes of the customer. Who would want to buy a Model 1905 in the Roaring Twenties?
The logo is typically deeply struck as shown in an earlier post, but your gun shows the word "TRADE" almost gone. There are other indicators of refinished guns, but often takes an in-hands inspection to determine what we think we are seeing.
