S&W 1917 45 ACP to 45 Colt conversion
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cgt4570
Member
Yes, but you will need a correct replacement cylinder and there are a couple of other concerns. You will have to get the replacement cylinder fitted and timed. They are NEVER a drop-in replacement!
I have done it. I recently sold a couple of spare correct length .45LC cylinders. You see them on Gunbroker quite often.
If you want it to be a dedicated .45 LC, then you can change the frame lug, too. If you want it to be a convertible (by interchanging the two fitted cylinders, you will have to leave the original .45 ACP frame lug. (the lug is the little 'tab' that sticks out on the left side that keeps the cylinder from falling rearward when opened).
Since the ACP needs quite a bit more headspace (for the thickness of moon clips), when you install the LC cylinder, it will have about 1/16" front-to-back play when opened. I don't see this as a problem, but it bothers some people.
Good luck!
I have done it. I recently sold a couple of spare correct length .45LC cylinders. You see them on Gunbroker quite often.
If you want it to be a dedicated .45 LC, then you can change the frame lug, too. If you want it to be a convertible (by interchanging the two fitted cylinders, you will have to leave the original .45 ACP frame lug. (the lug is the little 'tab' that sticks out on the left side that keeps the cylinder from falling rearward when opened).
Since the ACP needs quite a bit more headspace (for the thickness of moon clips), when you install the LC cylinder, it will have about 1/16" front-to-back play when opened. I don't see this as a problem, but it bothers some people.
Good luck!
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
New cylinder needed along with shortening the barrel shank as it's too long for the longer cylinder.
In other words, no, it can't be realistically done.
The 45 ACP is a better gun, anyway. Not much power advantage in the longer round but speed loading those moon clips is a big plus for the ACP gun.
In other words, no, it can't be realistically done.
The 45 ACP is a better gun, anyway. Not much power advantage in the longer round but speed loading those moon clips is a big plus for the ACP gun.
flagman1776
Member
I don't think you should consider this. You will destroy a piece of history & end up with a gun that is nearly an off the shelf gun. If you want a 45 (long) Colt N frame, you'll be ahead money to buy one already built.
Russ
Russ
tjsguns
Member
There was a Hamilton Bowen Conversion on here for sale not too long ago that was GORGEOUS! (You couldn't have a finer Gunsmith do the work for you)
The owner wanted some SERIOUS dough for it and it might still be listed in the Guns for Sale or Trade Classified section here. It had a BEAUTIFUL set of Stag Magna's on it!
I came THEEEEES close to buyin it meself!
The owner wanted some SERIOUS dough for it and it might still be listed in the Guns for Sale or Trade Classified section here. It had a BEAUTIFUL set of Stag Magna's on it!
I came THEEEEES close to buyin it meself!
Jack Flash
Member
Yeah, me too. I came within about $1400 of buying it.
You can buy a S&W M25-7 in .45 Colt for not much more than you would spend on this conversion. Then you would have two guns that are worth what you have in them rather than one gun that you will never sell for what you have in it.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
I had it done 40 years ago. I found a brand new .455 clyinder. My gunsmith in culver city california, Dan King, probley now retired or 90+ years old, reamed it to .45 colt. For some reason I dont know, he also used another crane. It was fully functional, reliable and accurate. I dont remember any extra play.
He also milled the frame and added S&W target sights, a nice front ramp the contour like a colt trooper, red post, WO rear. He beavertailed and widened the hammer and nicely checkered it. I also added S&W target stocks. When he got through with it, you would have guessed it was done at the factory! It was a convertable by just removeing one screw.
Even with the work adjusted for inflation, I doubt it was much different than paying $400 for the same job today, if even that!
The price of the gun, new clyinder and the labor, I doubt I had $300 in the job around 1970. Dan King was unknown but as good as the best known guru`s of today. His father was also Dan King who originaly started King Gun Works in Los Angeles, later owned by Al Capone.
I dont even have a picture of that gun. I used to dream up stuff like that and trade around a lot back then.
He also milled the frame and added S&W target sights, a nice front ramp the contour like a colt trooper, red post, WO rear. He beavertailed and widened the hammer and nicely checkered it. I also added S&W target stocks. When he got through with it, you would have guessed it was done at the factory! It was a convertable by just removeing one screw.
Even with the work adjusted for inflation, I doubt it was much different than paying $400 for the same job today, if even that!
The price of the gun, new clyinder and the labor, I doubt I had $300 in the job around 1970. Dan King was unknown but as good as the best known guru`s of today. His father was also Dan King who originaly started King Gun Works in Los Angeles, later owned by Al Capone.
I dont even have a picture of that gun. I used to dream up stuff like that and trade around a lot back then.
In the 1981 Gun Digest, C.E. Harris has an excellent article entitled "Build your own 45 Convertible". The article covers this conversion in great detail. I'd say if you can gather the parts and a willing gunsmith the conversion is very doable.
Sam
Sam
Jack Flash
Member
It would be interesting to hear an updated report about doing this conversion, complete with a breakdown of all expenses.
Don't forget shipping both ways...
Don't forget shipping both ways...
Marksman
Member
To those who are "on the fence" regarding the purchase of the Bowen conversion, my advise is to "do it". I pondered the creation of my Bowen pre-27 5" .44 Special conversion for a long time, I had a Jim Stroh/Alpha Precision M/27-2 5" .44 Special conversion prior to my Bowen. Anything else just isn't a Bowen, when I realized that a Bowen conversion costs little more than a Stroh or Clements that was all it took to place my order. Having had both a Stroh and a Bowen conversion built, the wait for the Bowen was about the same as for the Stroh. I pretty much went for all the bells and whistles on my Bowen conversion including the deluxe hand polishing. The hand polish option basically blue prints the revolver's exterior, flat surfaces are dead flat and rounds are true round. Hamilton's standard blue is enought to satisfy all but the pickiest shooter. I added a set of Keith Brown "Coke" style grips to complete the package bringing the total cost to $2200.00(this includes the $650.00 purchase price of the pre-27), I consider it to be the best money I ever spent. I created the ultimate .44 Special S&W revolver, it shoots much better than I can. Oh yea, the Stroh conversion now resides with a fellow forum member in the great state of Texas.
Jim Watson
Member
The 1981 article Sam McCord mentions describes how Harris handled the difference in rim thickness/headspace.. His .45 Colt cylinder was rechambered from a M28 .357 magnum and fitted to the gun including turning a little step recess at the rear so as to clear the cylinder stop lug. Harris' standard .45 Colt load used a semiwadcutter loaded as Keith said to, crimped over the front shoulder so as to fit the short cylinder.
Apropo Marksman's conversions, I think it is interesting that a S&W afficianado thinks nothing of having an older or uncommon revolver modified to suit himself, including caliber changes. But a 1911 man will have vapors at the idea of touching a pre 1970 Colt auto with a file.
Apropo Marksman's conversions, I think it is interesting that a S&W afficianado thinks nothing of having an older or uncommon revolver modified to suit himself, including caliber changes. But a 1911 man will have vapors at the idea of touching a pre 1970 Colt auto with a file.
flagman1776
Member
This thread has taken an interesting twist.
I think that a convertable makes much more sense than a conversion... IMHO, I'd study the details of conversion & choose the best platform before starting. Is it preferable to start with a 25-2 45 ACP with the shorter cylinder & longer barrel shank? Requiring a short 45 LColt cylinder & ammo loaded to fit.
Or a later 45 Colt with longer cylinder? Requiring a longer 45 ACP cylinder be built... with the longer chamber throat.
But, in any case, I'd not want to mess with a piece of history. Todays shooters are the collectables of tomorrow.
Russ
I think that a convertable makes much more sense than a conversion... IMHO, I'd study the details of conversion & choose the best platform before starting. Is it preferable to start with a 25-2 45 ACP with the shorter cylinder & longer barrel shank? Requiring a short 45 LColt cylinder & ammo loaded to fit.
Or a later 45 Colt with longer cylinder? Requiring a longer 45 ACP cylinder be built... with the longer chamber throat.
But, in any case, I'd not want to mess with a piece of history. Todays shooters are the collectables of tomorrow.
Russ
keith44spl
Member
45 ACP & 45 Long Colt
Well now, I do it all the time...Well, I wish I could!
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/89687-n-frame-conversion-45-long-colt-45-acp-now.html
And another...(never mind the squirrel rifle)
Su Amigo,
Dave
Well now, I do it all the time...Well, I wish I could!
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/89687-n-frame-conversion-45-long-colt-45-acp-now.html
And another...(never mind the squirrel rifle)
Su Amigo,
Dave
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Gun-runner
Member
I have a HE that was originally a .455 that a home "gunsmith" tried to convert to 45 ACP and ruined the cylinder. Can any N Frame cylinder be fit and rechambered to the revolver?
my $00.02
Probably, the reason for two cranes, is that the ejector rods had large heads. The 452423 Keith bullet, normally 252 grs in WW, will fit in the short cylinder,crimped in the crimping groove, with out trimming brass. Theoretically, all N-frame cylinders, fit all N-frames, even thouigh there are variations in locking notches and ratchets. This is all just my take, based on my experience, and is worth what it costs.
Probably, the reason for two cranes, is that the ejector rods had large heads. The 452423 Keith bullet, normally 252 grs in WW, will fit in the short cylinder,crimped in the crimping groove, with out trimming brass. Theoretically, all N-frame cylinders, fit all N-frames, even thouigh there are variations in locking notches and ratchets. This is all just my take, based on my experience, and is worth what it costs.
Dave T
Member
As someone earlier mentioned the philosophical difference between S&W collectors and 1911/1911A1 collectors is interesting. Most of the objections expressed here have been to the cost of the project versus the value of what you end up with. As stated before the 45 ACP semiauto crowd objects to modifying or customizing a pre 1970 Colt and gets down right offended at even the idea of firing a military gun. I once suggested I would want to at least put a magazine through a 1911A1 on the 6th of June and December 7th and you'd have thought I suggested selling my firstborn into slavery (OK, it wasn't quite that bad - LOL).
Personally I draw the line at 4-screw & 5-screw vintage Smiths unless they've already been messed with and then I'm cleaning up someone else's botched project. I have a 4th Model 44 Hand Ejector that had it's original 6-1/2" barrel badly chopped to a little over 3" and a crude front sight tacked on. Fitting a 24-3" barrel and refinishing so all the parts matched was a salvage job, not butchering. I wouldn't have considered re-barreling the gun with it's original barrel in place. The old adage "they don't make them anymore" would apply as the first rule to follow for me.
Just my $.02 worth,
Dave
Personally I draw the line at 4-screw & 5-screw vintage Smiths unless they've already been messed with and then I'm cleaning up someone else's botched project. I have a 4th Model 44 Hand Ejector that had it's original 6-1/2" barrel badly chopped to a little over 3" and a crude front sight tacked on. Fitting a 24-3" barrel and refinishing so all the parts matched was a salvage job, not butchering. I wouldn't have considered re-barreling the gun with it's original barrel in place. The old adage "they don't make them anymore" would apply as the first rule to follow for me.
Just my $.02 worth,
Dave
I also think we should be careful what we do to any potentially collectable piece. I had a hand in some questionable mods, before S&W non mag big bores became available in the 80s. We should be mindful of history. JMHO
Plain Old Dave
US Veteran
I'd do it... A .45LC revolver is a FAR superior piece to a .45ACP revolver. Might be cheaper to find a .455 2d Model HE already IN .45 Colt though.
45ACP= 230gr service load
45LC= 255gr service load.
To paraphrase Uncle Elmer: Bigger, heavier bullets kill better.
Nuff said.
45ACP= 230gr service load
45LC= 255gr service load.
To paraphrase Uncle Elmer: Bigger, heavier bullets kill better.
Nuff said.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If you handload, there is no ballistic reason for the conversion. One can handload the .45 ACP/Auto Rim case with 250-255 grain bullets to traditional .45 Colt factory velocities.
The best reason to do it, and one which is perfectly valid, is because you want to do it. The auxillary cylinder can be fit to the revolver without altering the revolver at all.
As others have said, adding an extra cylinder, especially one that needs rechambering, to a S&W revolver may cost as much as an entire, completed revolver that already shoots the second cartridge.
So, you gotta want it bad enough to pay for it.
We used to do this back before the late 1970's, when S&W revolvers in .45 Colt weren't generally available from S&W. Such is no longer the case.
Best scenario is when you already have the needed parts and can do much or all of the work yourself.
The best reason to do it, and one which is perfectly valid, is because you want to do it. The auxillary cylinder can be fit to the revolver without altering the revolver at all.
As others have said, adding an extra cylinder, especially one that needs rechambering, to a S&W revolver may cost as much as an entire, completed revolver that already shoots the second cartridge.
So, you gotta want it bad enough to pay for it.
We used to do this back before the late 1970's, when S&W revolvers in .45 Colt weren't generally available from S&W. Such is no longer the case.
Best scenario is when you already have the needed parts and can do much or all of the work yourself.
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