S&W 1917 and .45 ACP P+

[Ray]

I Bought yesterday some .45 ACP P+ for defensive situations. Is the use of a few rounds , say a cylinder full, liable to cause serious damage to my brazilian?
How the pressure ( CUP) of both loads, conventional and P+ compare ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray

 

[HKSmith]

SAAMI standards for the 2 cartridges are:

.45 ACP - 21,000 PSI
.45 ACP +P - 23,000 PSI

There's less than 10% difference between the two, so with the caveat that I know nothing about you particular revolver, it is probably safe. You mentioned CUP, but SAAMI doesn't list a CUP standard for the +P load.

 

[stansdds]

Just like firing 38 Special +P in S&W 38 Special revolvers that pre-date the model number system, it will not blow up your revolver, but it will accelerate wear and tear. I would approach it the same way as with 38 Special revolvers, practice with standard pressure ammo, finish practice with one cylinder full of +P for sight-in and familiarization.

With modern bullets like Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot, Remington's Golden Saber, and Winchester's Ranger T, the extra velocity of +P ammo is not required for adequate and reliable expansion. With modern bullets, +P often causes faster expansion, but at the expense of reduced penetration.

 

[ddixie884]

Just like firing 38 Special +P in S&W 38 Special revolvers that pre-date the model number system, it will not blow up your revolver, but it will accelerate wear and tear. I would approach it the same way as with 38 Special revolvers, practice with standard pressure ammo, finish practice with one cylinder full of +P for sight-in and familiarization.

With modern bullets like Federal's HST, Speer's Gold Dot, Remington's Golden Saber, and Winchester's Ranger T, the extra velocity of +P ammo is not required for adequate and reliable expansion. With modern bullets, +P often causes faster expansion, but at the expense of reduced penetration.

In my younger days I used a lot of +P and even +P+ type loads in a number of 1917s and even a shaved S&W 2nd model with british markings. I didn't care. They were cheap and not regarded as collectible and I regarded them as a "poor mans magnum". I no longer do that. I also don't think that a few +P for familiarization and a cylinder full at the end of a practice session will hurt your extremely fine revolver. and for defense they will be great.

 

[Ray]

Thanks to all for the answers, regards, Ray

 

[andy52]

I wouldn't subject my 1917, 37 or my 1950 model to +p .45s. There are to many guns out there more capable of handing those loads.

 

[rockquarry]

There is little practical advantage in using +P ammo in anything as opposed to using standard pressure loads, though the gunfighting theorists might disagree. Learn to shoot well; far more important than +P.

Were the 1917 revolvers even heat-treated? I don't know, but perhaps another good reason not to use +P in a gun that's a hundred years old.

 

[dsf]

I wouldn't subject my 1917, 37 or my 1950 model to +p .45s. There are to many guns out there more capable of handing those loads.

If I had a handful of +P ammo and a 1917 I'd use it as an excuse to go out & buy another ACP revolver.

 

[Duckford]

What is the minimum thickness of the cylinder, at the notch? About 0.023 inch? How much pressure do you want against that thin piece of steel?

 

[StrawHat]

...Were the 1917 revolvers even heat-treated? I don't know, but perhaps another good reason not to use +P in a gun that's a hundred years old...

Yes, the military required the cylinders of the 1917s to be heat treated. The first of the S&W revolvers to be heated treated. After that, it was phased in to all of the line I believe.

As for firing +P in a 1917? I have between several and many ACP revolvers. Because I have some modern ones in the group I use those for heavier loads. The 1917s and even the 1950 get hardball or handloaded equivalents. Just my choice. I do not expect expansion at handgun velocities and prefer a larger meplat to increase effectiveness.


Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

I Bought yesterday some .45 ACP P+ for defensive situations. Is the use of a few rounds , say a cylinder full, liable to cause serious damage to my brazilian?
How the pressure ( CUP) of both loads, conventional and P+ compare ?
Thanks, Regards, Ray

Ray,

Do you have another Brazilian Model or are we talking about that pristine specimen you showed us a while ago?

Kevin

 

[Ray]

No Kevin, that´s my only one. My concern was about shooting a very few P+ in it.
I presume, from the gathered info here, that a few rounds, say 10 or 20 won´t damage or significantly wear the gun.
However as of today since I aquired it the 1917 was never shot. Intend to do this soon.

Regards, Ray

 

[kaaskop49]

The Model 22 of 1917 was the 1st gun I purchased in LV 10 years ago. I had intended to order some of that BB .45ACP higher velocity ammo, but I was surprised to discover the revolver kicked like heck with standard ball ammo, so I decided not to. I do have a moon clip with Super Vel .45ACP from the past should it become necessary.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
As the gun is built for mil spec 45 acp and fmj is what we shoot most
of the time, there is little use for +P'
Unless you you have a "slow" gun and need to insure bullet deformation.
It is a "45" after all.
All mine are recent made capable of +p and 45 super level loads
But I use ball most of the time.

 

[StrawHat]

Just so everyone is aware, Ray is in South America and I am not sure about ammunition availability. And the 1917 he is talking about is one of the finest 1917s most of us have seen.

Hopefully Ray will post some photographs.

Kevin