S&W 610 and MOON CLIP QUESTION

[KEVCON]

I have a S&W 610-3 with the 6.5" barrel. I bought it used and I don't remember if it came with the factory moon clips.

Recently I purchased 8 moon clips from Moon Clip Store for my S&W 610-3. I was told from Moon Clip Store that the thickness of the moon clips are 0.037" and are identical to the S&W factory moon clips that came with the firearm originally.

I go to the range about once a week. I have been using my S&W 625 (JM model) without fail and decided to start using my S&W 610-3 (probably because I had no moon clips for it originally). I generally only fire reloads (cost) at the range. The 40 S&W reloads I am using are from LAX (as the name implies it is near the LAX airport in Los Angeles, California). The are not just one type of manufacture reloads. The ammo can is mixed from different manufactures.

Of the eight moon clips pre-loaded with the LAX reloaded ammunition at least half of them gave me problems. I was shooting with a male and female friend. The female picked up the S&W 610-3 with the first pre-load of LAX 40 S&W and every round went off as expected (as a side she had never shot this revolver before and ended up with a 1" group at 7 yards). The male then picked up the revolver and he had a few misfires. I thought that perhaps he was doing something wrong (he was firing double action). I ended up having the same problems when I tried a different pre-loaded moon clip. In some cases I could cycle around and get the round to go off. In some cases that didn't work.

Sadly, I didn't look at every round after shooting to determine if it was a particular manufacture brass that was causing the misfire. The three misfires in the below pictures are from Federal, Brazer and PMC.

Long story...here is my question:

Is this a common occurrence when using moon clips and reloaded ammunition? Or is this purely a moon clip thickness to brass type issue? I did order a package of stainless steel moon clips for my S&W 610-3 from TK Custom that are 0.040". However, I have not tried them yet (the rounds are definitely "tighter" in those moon clips than the 0.037" one).

If this is the wrong forum to ask this question please let me know and direct me to the right forum.

Below are the pictures for reference:

 

[Pizza Bob]

Usually with rimless ammo this type of problem does not crop up as the extractor groove dimensions are specified by SAAMI - but I do recall someone making two thicknesses of clips.

The clips may not be your problem, however. First, before you resort to switching clips, make sure that the strain screw is tight. If you can turn it at all, that was most likely your problem. Even if it is tight, you may want to replace it so that you have a known baseline and you can search elsewhere for a solution.

I have a 646 and use cheap Ranch Products moon clips and have never had a problem, although I did only use Federal ammo.

Try the screw first.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Skeetr57]

I have one of the early 610's with the 5" barrel. I have shot both 10mm and .40 S&W rounds with the moon clips that came with it with no problems.

 

[Captain O]

The answer to your question is:

a) Yes, the came with 'factory supplied clips'. (These are needed for extraction).

b) Try the "screw solution.

c) Call S&W's Customer Service line for cilp dimension answers, then act accordingly.

Good luck, and may God bless.

 

[OKFC05]

I have a S&W 610-3 with the 6.5" barrel. I bought it used

Since you bought it used, first thing I would do is put in a factory mainspring and strain screw, since I keep these items on hand. If you then get 100% ignition, that answers your question.

One of our shooters bought the 610, which went bang every time. He then started changing springs and cutting the strain screw until it would misfire with anything but Federal primers in a certain brand of brass ( I forget which). He then got so frustrated he sold the gun.

 

[KEVCON]

I am glad that I asked this question because I was not aware of the strain screw situation at all. I wonder if S&W has the factory parts (I will call them tomorrow) since they informed me a few weeks ago that the barrels for the S&W 610 were "obsolete" and no longer in stock (I was going to have one cut down to 4.25" for obvious reasons - I didn't really want to destroy the original barrel). I haven't tried the thicker moon clips from TK Custom yet. My thought, perhaps incorrectly, is that "extra" 0.003 would move the primer closer to the firing pin for a harder strike. And of course I am suspect of mass re-load ammunition.

 

[Dave Lively]

My 610 no dash came with half moon clips. I also have a bunch of third party full moon clips that measure .04 thick and have never had any trouble but I am the original owner and have never messed with the strain screw.

I normally shot reloads with varying power levels but always using 10mm brass. With 10mm brass I would often not even bother with the clips and picked the brass out individually. With .40 S&W I always used the clips and the 100 rounds or so rounds of factory 40 S&W I shot through the gun always worked.

 

[Nightowl]

Strangely, unless I missed it, no one suggested firing a box of factory ammunition to rule out hard primer reloads. After checking the mainspring strain screw, of course. I shot a couple of boxes of 10mm out of mine without using moon clips and had no missfires and the empty cases just fell out of the gun. The 10mm is a fun gun to shoot and seems to be very accurate.

 

[BillyMagg]

Strangely, unless I missed it, no one suggested firing a box of factory ammunition to rule out hard primer reloads. After checking the mainspring strain screw, of course. I shot a couple of boxes of 10mm out of mine without using moon clips and had no missfires and the empty cases just fell out of the gun. The 10mm is a fun gun to shoot and seems to be very accurate.

"Show ME! State", LOL!

 

[jcelect]

Light strikes!

I shoot the 610 in bowling pin matches and have probably put 10,000+ rds thru my gun. I do my own trigger work and have my triggers very low(gaming guns) for most people! I use Federal primers ONLY and have had misfires, caused by the main spring strain screw backing out. First, try swapping screws with your 625 and second, you can use a spent primer! Remove the anvil and use the cup to cover the end of your main spring strain screw.
jcelect

 

[Izzydog]

I'm glad my father pointed this thread out to me. Last week I took my 4" 610 to the police range. It thoroughly embarrassed me, I even shot the target stand! I checked my moon clips, and they're all .040 thickness.

 

[Pizza Bob]

I'm glad my father pointed this thread out to me. Last week I took my 4" 610 to the police range. It thoroughly embarrassed me, I even shot the target stand! I checked my moon clips, and they're all .040 thickness.

Am I missing something here? What correlation is there between accuracy and clip thickness? Any component of the gun that has an effect on accuracy is downstream of the clip.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Izzydog]

i strained so hard to pull the trigger,that i was completely pulling off target.

 

[Pizza Bob]

i strained so hard to pull the trigger,that i was completely pulling off target.

Still missing the correlation. Are you saying that the thicker moon clip (.040" vs. .035") caused the cartridges to drag on the recoil shield to the point it affected trigger pull? I'm skeptical of that. Anyone making clips that patently don't work would be out of business pronto.

The reason for the varying thickness of the clips is to better fit varying brands of brass - although, AFAIK, the .40/10mm is among the least fussy and has pretty much standardized on .035".

If you have cylinder drag, I'd check the B/C gap as you rotate the cylinder. It's possible that the cylinder or forcing cone is not faced-off square or that you have enough end-play that it drags.

Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob