S&W 908 barrel--pics and questions

J

jmac2112

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I recently bought a Model 908 with a "tab" on the back of the barrel hood that is not square (the point where it contacts the breech face). Here is a link to some photos:

Untitled - Google Photos

I was hoping to shoot this gun soon, but it looks like it may be a few weeks before I get the chance. In the meantime, I just wanted to get some feedback on this. Does this look like a QC issue at S&W? Is it common? Is there any reason that someone would do this on purpose?

Although I haven't fired the gun, I have dry-fired it with a laser cartridge, and I was dismayed by the fact that I had to move the rear sight WAY off center to get POA = POI. With the laser, it shoots about 3" to the right at 15 feet if I have the sights centered. I have used this laser with several other guns, and it has always been spot on compared to the way the gun shoots for real. If I wedge a thin sheet of plastic between the frame and the left side of the barrel when it's in lock-up, such that the rear end of the barrel is pushed as far to the right as possible, then it will shoot straight with the laser.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone can shed some light on this. Thanks in advance for your feedback!

John
 
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Hi, John!

You probably know this, but those barrels are made with an extra long tang/hood that is filed/fitted to the slide.

"Somebody" seems to have filed your barrel "un-square" to the breech face.

I don't know if that somebody was S&W or a later person.

As the 908 model barrels lack the locking lug in front of the chamber (as on the non-value line pistols) and lock up only with the chamber area, I can see how accuracy could be compromised.

The "fix" may be as simple as squaring off the hood with a good file, but I don't know how loose the lock-up is now.

I would think because the hood is shorter on the left side, the rear of the barrel would push to the right, but you say you must shim the barrel in that direction to get POI to equal POA.

(I'm starting to wonder if that is what someone attempted with the "un-square" filing?)

If you do not have access to a substitute barrel to swap, it would probably be worth your time to contact S&W.

John
 
JohnHL,

Thanks for the reply! I haven't measured it, but I would say there is about .005" play front to rear. If I filed it square, I think it would be about .025", which would surely be excessive.

I have an opportunity to pick up a used barrel for $50, and I might go ahead and do that. On the other hand, it looks like Midway is offering new barrels for these pistols for $85:

Smith & Wesson Barrel S&W 908 - MPN: 276240000

That option would surely require fitting, and I am not sure what all would be required to do that. If I went with the used barrel instead, do you think I could expect it to drop right in, or were they all hand-fitted at the factory?

Thanks!

John
 
jbtrucker,

Good to know! Info like this is exactly why this forum exists.

Thanks,

John
 
New barrels generally have a hood so long that they will not seat completely in the slide or will only seat with difficulty.

Fitting the barrel is squarely filing the end of the hood so the barrel just drops out of the slide when turned right side up.

A caveat: Your slide and barrel has the older, narrow style hood.

The later, wide hood will not work with your slide unless it is narrowed on both sides.

I'm pretty sure the Midway barrel has the later, wide hood.

If it were mine, and I was experiencing the problems you are, AND (and this is an important AND) the hood still noticeably extends beyond the base of a chambered round, I would probably square the hood to the breech face, as long as the hood still extended past the base of chambered rounds, AFTER the squaring.

OTOH, if you can find a used 908 barrel with the narrow hood for a reasonable price, it will PROBABLY drop in because it was already fitted to a slide.

But, FIRST THINGS FIRST!

Shoot the pistol.

If it shoots OK, this all becomes academic.

Often times, cosmetic issues are NOT functional issues, although they are annoying.

John

P.S. All Midway barrels are genuine S&W barrels.
 
JohnHL,

I know the notch in my slide is .400", but it's good to know that this is the earlier style. I'm very new to these all-metal S&W autos. I'll take it a step at a time and see how things go!

Thanks,

John
 
OK, wide it is! I think our messages almost passed one another in cyberspace.
 
I'd agree with John that it looks like a botched fitting job on someone's part with your current barrel hood. The area of the gun I would be concerned with that affecting is the lugs under the barrel in the aluminum frame, that mate with the lugs on the bottom of the barrel. Hopefully one is not worn down more than the other from excessive shooting with this barrel. Though I am no expert, I would check those out before doing anything with this gun.

I would imagine that if the aluminum frame lugs are too worn, the fit could be out of spec, and possibly no good anymore, even with squaring the tab of the current barrel or a new one. Hopefully someone with a better understanding of the barrel-to-frame mechanics can chime in on this as well.

The barrels I have seen from Midway have been factory S&W barrels, and I have purchased and installed a few of them without issue on my guns. I recently picked up a wide-hood 5906 barrel that required no fitting of the tab and works like a charm.

Perhaps those who have had issues unknowingly received later revisions of the barrel needed that simply wouldn't work with their gun? It's also possible that Midway packaged the wrong barrel, I've had them send me the wrong parts before, in packages labeled as the part I ordered.

*edit to add*

I think that the model 908 only came with the wide-hood barrel, and I would agree that the barrel pictured looks to be a wide hood. My parts list only has one barrel listed for the 908.
 
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It would seem to me, that during recoil, up to the point of unlocking, the cartridge case would be bearing against the breech face and the front of the barrel chamber would be pushed by the slide, with the barrel hood having little to no contact with the breech face.

The unlocking lugs on the underside of the barrel would not seem to be influenced by the squareness of the barrel hood.

Locking into battery, i.e. when the slide does push the barrel up the slide stop by pushing against the barrel hood, may cause the barrel to push to one side.

When I first gazed at the pictures, it looked like a narrow hood.

After I thunked about it, I thunked I remembered that 908s were late enough to have missed the narrow hood so I took another, closer look.

John
 
I've tried inserting the barrel into the frame, running it up and down the ramps inside the frame. The ramps don't appear to be beaten up, and the barrel moves smoothly and freely, BUT I did notice that with the barrel pushed all the way to the rear, it points slightly to the right.

On the other hand, if I understand JohnHL correctly, when the gun is fired, the barrel is driven forward so that the front of the hood contacts the slide, and that interface is what will affect accuracy the most. It could be that my laser cartridge is shooting to the right simply because the barrel is cocked to the right when in battery (held in that position by the recoil spring). Once it's fired for real, the gun might shoot straight.

Does that sound plausible?

EDIT: After playing around a little more, I can now see that the barrel does not appear to be in contact with those frame ramps when in battery, and they serve to bring the rear of the barrel down during recoil. Still, the second paragraph above seems to make sense to me.
 
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Finally got a chance to shoot my 908 yesterday. Shoots accurately with the sights centered, so my fears were for naught. I still can't imagine why anyone would do that to the barrel, but oh well....

Thanks to all who replied!

John
 
jmac2112 said:
Finally got a chance to shoot my 908 yesterday. Shoots accurately with the sights centered, so my fears were for naught. I still can't imagine why anyone would do that to the barrel, but oh well....

Thanks to all who replied!

John
Click to expand...

Probably someone that did not understand or know the proper procedure for fitting a barrel.

I'm glad that you found your S&W 908 to be an accurate shooter. Take good care of it and enjoy it often.
 
jmac, I doubt anybody intentionally did anything to your barrel hood. I've owned a bunch of S&W 9MMs since the '60s. Production barrels in production slides are not fitted, they are just assembled and checked for proper fit and function. Often as not, barrel hoods and breech faces are not exactly square to each other, and in battery there will be some end play between breech face and barrel hood. BarSto calls this play "head slop". Last time I looked into it, allowable clearance between S&W barrel hood and breech face was .002"-.008". My production S&Ws tend toward the higher figure, and barrel hoods rarely have a nice even contact with the breech face as might be expected with an actual fitted barrel. For instance, the hood to breech face contact on my S&W 3913 is not perfect either. The best barrel hood to breech face I have seen on production guns is with the SIGs. Those are very even, and will most often display no detectable "head slop" in battery at all. As you've discovered, all your "fears were for naught"...
 
Thanks, guys! Good to know this is normal(ish). I'm just glad it shoots great!

John
 
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