S&W Confirms SD and SIGMA VE Share Same Guide Rod Part #

[MyLastRook]

I just got off the Phone with S&W Customer Service and they have confirmed that the SD and the Sigma VE Share the same Guide Rod Spring Assembly part Number.

This should mean that the Wolff Steel Guide Rod for the Sigma VE and Wolff VE Springs should work in the SD.

That is all. Carry on.

 

[concho mike]

maybe this would be a good sticky so we can add to it as we find other parts that are interchangeable too?

Mike

 

[MyLastRook]

I wish I'd of thought to ask them if the Part number of the Ejector was the same as the M&P Ejector while I was at it.

 

[OKFC05]

S&W Parts lists are available online:
Parts Lists - Smith & Wesson

 

[MyLastRook]

Which would be very helpful...Except for the fact that the SD is to new to be listed in that online parts list PDF.

But I suppose it could be a helpful link a year from now.

I don't suppose anybodies posted whether there's an exploded diagram of the SD in the Back of the owners manual, that has the parts numbers listed?

I'll check tomorrow when I pick my new SD40 up. I kinda doubt it though.

Not really a big issue, because I wasn't really planning on switching out the ejector or anything.

I am going to see about switching out that Guide Rod in favor of a Steel Wolff rod though. I've replaced every plastic guide rod I've ever had with steel and see no reason to stop now.

 

[OKFC05]

I am going to see about switching out that Guide Rod in favor of a Steel Wolff rod though.

I'm curiious why?

The aftermarket rods/springs fail in combat tupperware used in competition much more often than do the stock ones.

 

[MyLastRook]

OKFC05

I'm curiious why?

The aftermarket rods/springs fail in combat tupperware used in competition much more often than do the stock ones.

Sure I'd be glad to address that.

The after market you describe is pretty diverse and I believe your lumping gimmicky recoil reduction system guide rod packages in with simple steel guide rods. An example would be the old Harrts Reciol reducer or the current Springco products that supposedly tame recoil. I've seen quite a few chewed up Springco reducers and believe there usefulness over their short life span is dubious at best.

On the other hand the Wolff is a solid chunk of quality steel. There's really not a whole lot that can go wrong there. Your not seeing a whole lot of Wolff's fail in competition.

I have noted a slight increase in the accuracy in Glocks with steel guide rods as opposed to the more flexible OEM plastic captured rod. I believe the steel guide rods are less susceptible to lateral whip during the cycling of the weapon and offer a more consistent lock up.

I'm also old enough to be part of a generation that stopped worrying about "that thing'll put your eye out kid" after we got old enough to retire that Red Ryder BB Gun. So I'm not really dependant on a captured spring or anything.

On .40 S&W weapons I tend to stay pretty close to the OEM Spring weight. (For reasons that start with Ka and end with Boom.) (Wolff offers a number of spring weight options.) Unless S&W has altered the slide mass a lot more than I think they have on the SD . I expect the spring weight is going to be 16 or 17 pounds. I tend to run middle of the road bullet weights around 155 gr or 165 gr and am not what you'd call recoil sensitive. So I see little reason to monkey around with spring weights to much.

Last of all. Unlike the Guide Rod packages that claim magical powers of recoil reduction that are marvels of modern sales voodoo. The Steel Wolff guide rods only cost about $29.00 a piece as opposed to $80 to $90 for Voodoo Physics rods. At that price I can buy Steel Wolff Rods three at a time and throw one over my shoulder every time I think I see an imaginary microscopic scratch on it.

One has to wonder how steel guide rods in pistols survived all those years before the invention of much cheaper to produce, plastic, lawyer proof, captured spring assemblies. Because we all know that plastic NEVER fails...Nope...Never.

 

[MyLastRook]

Another thought. Just so there will never be any confusion about my motivations or where the Rook is coming from...

I want to see the SD take off in sales. Call me a Nationalistic, Xenophobic, Built in the USA, Gun Brand Name Fascist...But I've been sick of the Glock hype for years.

If we were comparing guns to cars. I'd say that S&W had just come out with the Camero. It's not the Corvette which would be the M&P. It's not the Chevette which is the Sigma.

Am I interested in seeing an after market develop, where parts options are much more plentiful than they ever could have been for the Chevette and lots of people are turning their Camero's into American Muscle Cars, that blow the Eurotrash off the road and send them sulking back to Vienna, for around half the sticker price of the Vette?

Why Yes. Yes I am.

Just so you know where I'm coming from.

Yes. I believe the SD40 I just bought for $340.00 is the long awaited Glock 23 killer.

 

[OKFC05]

One has to wonder how steel guide rods in pistols survived all those years before the invention of much cheaper to produce, plastic, lawyer proof, captured spring assemblies. Because we all know that plastic NEVER fails...Nope...Never.

Sarcasm noted. I wondered if you were getting a miracle rod or just like the old style system.

I think your analysis of the miracle rods is accurate, and as far as the Wolff steel rod itself is concerned, it lasts much longer than the piano wire recoil springs commonly used with it. For USPSA Glocks, ISMI makes a superior chrome silicon wire spring that typically lasts at least a year in competition. Haven't seen any for the S&W tupperware yet. I use the ISMI in 1911 platforms.

The Wolff steel rod/piano wire assembly does not outlast the stock assembly with the flatwound springs because the piano wire fails much sooner than the flatwound. Naturally either one gives satisfactory service when replaced before failure by inspecting closely at cleaning time. For Wolff, the spring fails first; for the stock asembly, the plastic rod usually starts to chip and crack while the spring is still good.

For IDPA, the whole question is moot since aftermarket steel recoil rods add weight and are banned. I assumed when IDPA started that there would be more failures of the stock assemblies than what is experienced in USPSA competition, but that has not been the case. On a percentage basis, USPSA sectionals have more equipment failures of all types than a similar-sized IDPA match.
There is something a little too exciting in seeing an open gun come apart right in front of you.
I'm an IDPA match director and USPSA/CRO.

 

[MyLastRook]

OKFC05

Sarcasm noted.

Then I guess your sarcasm meter is broken or you might be to much of the overly sensitive and constantly looking for an internet confrontation type.

I'm an IDPA match director and USPSA/CRO.

No offense but this just means you've shelled out some money and a little time to become a big duck at your local range. It doesn't really tell us anything about how much actual competition or non internet shooting experience you have. I know plenty of guys that compete once every couple of years, that front their IDPA stuff on the internet like they are the second coming of Jerry Miculek.

I live in Okla. Do tell. Where is this range that your a director at, where you've seen this amazing amount of guide rod failures, on what must be a daily basis.

I'm old enough to have run the old Detonics Steel Recoil Rod kits in 1911's...way, way back in the day...So you'll pardon me if I don't get all weak in the knees ever time someone invokes the mighty 1911 over the tupperware or mentions the IDPA.

 

[OKFC05]

Gee, you get really upset at someone who essentially agrees with you!

I think your getting the Wolff rod is a great idea; I just suggested you get several springs to go with it, as the piano wire springs fail much sooner than the rods. Too bad ISMI does not make springs for the S&W, as ISMI springs truly last a year or more.

There are only 4 IDPA match directors in OK, and if you're shot in any sanctioned IDPA matches in OK in the last dozen or so years, you're seen me. Or maybe in MO, TX, TN, KY. For USPSA, I don't travel so much.

As to equipment failure rates, I've always been interested and have followed the types of equipment and the problems associated with each. Considering the high number of rounds shot, the equipment durability and safety are remarkable.
However, I've never seen a sanctioned match without equipment failures of some kind, something either needing repair or a shooter going to a backup gun. If I had to pick an average number, I'd say close to 5% have some equipment issue, many of which are readily fixed.
At the 2008 OK state IDPA match, I lost a stage to a totally unexpected catastrophic gun failure, went to a backup gun, and lost my class by a whisker. S&W fixed the gun for free.

I detect a hint of attitude in your post that by buying the right parts, you will eliminate all chance of failure, and am just pointing out that a lot of experience by a lot of people indicates this is just not possible.
"If you've never had a gun break, you just haven't shot enough" is an old trite but true saying.

Good luck with your new gun and I hope to see you at the range!

 

[MyLastRook]

Oh and as for the steel guide rod adding weight to the gun thats unacceptable to the IDPA...I couldn't give a rats south end.

I've been laughing for darn near twenty minutes wondering how anybody could be so overpoweringly immersed in IDPA that they WOULD think that I cared about it.

The problem with most practical pistol competitions is that they pretty much all quickly become more about rule lawyers than actually defending your life. People get into those sports hoping to become warriors but instead become dweeby Walter Mitty types with a rule book and set of scales for their gun.

 

[setxn]

So much anger over a pistol.

 

[MyLastRook]

Naw. I just can't believe my nice simple technical threads always get ruined by a couple of arrogant IDPA game shooters, who inevitably have to show up and assume that none of the rest of us knows that pistol parts occasionally fail.

The question is...What are the mean chances of a failure...And to hear Captain IDPA talk about it...I guess I better change my Wolff Springs after every 20 round box of Horady TAP. Or better yet maybe I should just work changing the the Recoil Springs into my mag change drills after every 14 round dump.

BEEEEEP...BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG. Drop Magazine...Strip Slide off, Replace Spring, Reinstall the slide, Insert fresh Mag..BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG..BEEEEP.

(Had to have the BEEEP's in there, because this thread has now turned from a nice little thread about whether or not the SD can take various after market parts meant for Other S&W pistols, into an officially sanctioned IDPA thread...And God forbid we might ad an ounce or make the gun not fit in the box.)

It'd give a whole new meaning to Tap, Rack (The Whole Slide Off and replace internals), Bang.

 

[Grog]

So much anger over a pistol.

A guide rod to be exact


It makes me glad I'm not in Oklahoma.

 

[kenster]

MyLastRook, what are you ranting and raving about? Camaros, Corvettes, Camaro muscle cars, Euro trash.
Your new SD is a Camaro of guns. Your going to build your Camaro into a muscle car by putting a Wolf steel recoil rod and spring in.
The S&W SD is going to replace the Sigma as a entry level pistol. It will be what it will be. It was not made to be a target match gun. There will be people that will like it and not like it.

ZOOM... ZOOM...

 

[MyLastRook]

You right kenster...I did make a mistake. I should have said Over Priced Europlastic.

S&W has given you the great gift of a cheap high quality American made pistol of the same quality and reliability as the high dollar europlastic, thats going to rock the market back on it's heels and force others to re-evaluate their pricing downward...and all you can do is Fudd about it's impossible to stick lipstick on the Sigma pig.

It's not really a surprise that some of you couldn't buy a clue.

The firearms web is filled with people that don't have a clue about what makes their gun work. Who Substitute someone else's one minute YouTube video for real mechanical knowledge.

Where ever I go. I'm used to always being the most popular girl in school.

 

[kenster]

I own the Sigma and think it's a reliable gun. The trigger everyone complains about is it's downfall. I like the quality except for the sear assembly. The sear cam is awful. They have serrations that give the trigger that gritty, jerky pull. I worked at a machine shop and we called the serrations chatter due to dull tooling. We would scrap such parts. I can't believe these parts passed inspection. Some are worse than others but there are a lot of complaining about grittiness. It does have a hard trigger but it doesn't bother me. I think it makes you a better shooter. I know a lot of people who are decent shooters who absolutely suck when they try my Sigma. They tend to shoot low and left due to pulling gun off target because of hard trigger. The gun was made to be a carry gun and at the price you can't beat it.

 

[kenster]

Did you get to fire the SD yet? How does trigger compair to Sigma?

 

[Grog]

You right kenster...I did make a mistake. I should have said Over Priced Europlastic.

It's good to see you have an open mind.

S&W has given you the great gift of a cheap high quality American made pistol of the same quality and reliability as the high dollar europlastic, thats going to rock the market back on it's heels and force others to re-evaluate their pricing downward...and all you can do is Fudd about it's impossible to stick lipstick on the Sigma pig.

It's not going to come close to rocking the market in any meaningful way.

The SD will be known as the Sigma part Deux.

It's not really a surprise that some of you couldn't buy a clue.

I would rather buy a clue that whatever you're drinking

The firearms web is filled with people that don't have a clue about what makes their gun work. Who Substitute someone else's one minute YouTube video for real mechanical knowledge.

...and firearms forums are filled with people like you, which makes me laugh...

Where ever I go. I'm used to always being the most popular girl in school.

If you're a girl, post pics.

If you're a dude, you win the contest for the weirdest thing I've ever read on this forum.