S&W factory won't repair constricted barrel (686)

[8shot]

Just rec'd my 686 SKU 150855 with 7" barrel from the factory for the 2nd time.

My range rod will not pass through the barrel completely because it is torqued on too tight which reduces the bore diameter in the threaded area. I can actually see that the lands/grooves are deformed in front of the forcing cone using a bore light from the front.

I have (2) of these 7" revolvers (NEW)...the range rod will not pass through either one. In a nutshell the bullet diameter will be reduced entering the barrel then pass (rattle) through the remaining larger barrel bore diameter?

The factory will not address this condition specifically pointed out but continues to list other repairs they made that were not discussed or requested.

I do not have this "restricted" condition with any of my other S&W revolvers including 4" 686 models.

Obviously I can't verify cylinder/barrel alignment properly and feel that this is actually a safety issue more than an accuracy issue.

From what I hear this lack of quality is now the norm with new 686 revolvers? I bought these 7" revolvers intending to get back into Action Pistol but obviously won't have much confidence in them.

 

[Protocall_Design]

You will not get good groups out of a barrel like that. Is there a local revo smith that can help? If you take the barrel off, it will spring back to size, then the shoulder can be turned back 2-3 thousandths and put back on.

 

[glenwolde]

At this point I'd shoot it and send it back with a target.

 

[8shot]

You will not get good groups out of a barrel like that. Is there a local revo smith that can help? If you take the barrel off, it will spring back to size, then the shoulder can be turned back 2-3 thousandths and put back on.

I have the equipment to do it myself....also have a feeling that there are thousands of 686 revolvers out there with the same condition that S&W is aware of...but might be concerned with a possible recall situation? Their return correspondence to me does not mention the restriction....but lists other non related conditions.

Anyone that has a 686 with poor accuracy...might want to check the barrel for the restriction.

Already made an aluminum shroud....working on my mover base now. Made the shroud while the 7" was at the factory for repairs..used a 4" 686 as a reference.

 

[Alk8944]

8 Shot:

First:The correct term for the condition you describe is "Frame Choke", or "Thread Choke". It has existed in a high percentage of S&W revolvers made since 1960 or so. Most people would never look for it, or know what they were seeing. Only dedicated target shooters would even care!!!

Second, a range rod cannot be used to check proper barrel/cylinder timing! The only purpose for the range rod is to check gross misalignment of the barrel & cylinder! It was originally intended as a safety check to make sure guns will not provide severe bullet shaving causing a safety issue to shooters alongside someone having a gun that shaves severely. Think about it, a range rod for .38/.357 must be no larger than .350" and going into a .357" or slightly larger cylinder throat. The best you can check with a range rod is +/-.0035" Stick the range rod in your toolbox and forget you have it, it is useless for what you expect it to do!

There are four things that can be done about frame choke:

First, you can fire lap the bore to attempt to reduce the constriction.

Second, remove the barrel which may allow the constriction to "relax". Then face the barrel shoulder so the barrel can be drawn up with little torque, and then use Loc-Tite "Sleeve Mount" to glue the barrel in. THIS REALLY WORKS!!!

Third, use only jacketed bullets as these will spring back some once past the choke and reduce the effect of the choke constriction.

Fourth: Have the barrel "Taylor Throated". (Note; if you google this read the description under the Castboolets.com link, most of the other results are not an accurate description of the process.) Basically this is free-boring of the shank portion of the barrel to remove the constriction.

Or, you could just shoot the gun as is

 

[8shot]

8 Shot:

First:The correct term for the condition you describe is "Frame Choke", or "Thread Choke". It has existed in a high percentage of S&W revolvers made since 1960 or so. Most people would never look for it, or know what they were seeing. Only dedicated target shooters would even care!!!

Second, a range rod cannot be used to check proper barrel/cylinder timing! The only purpose for the range rod is to check gross misalignment of the barrel & cylinder! It was originally intended as a safety check to make sure guns will not provide severe bullet shaving causing a safety issue to shooters alongside someone having a gun that shaves severely. Think about it, a range rod for .38/.357 must be no larger than .350" and going into a .357" or slightly larger cylinder throat. The best you can check with a range rod is +/-.0035" Stick the range rod in your toolbox and forget you have it, it is useless for what you expect it to do!

There are four things that can be done about frame choke:

First, you can fire lap the bore to attempt to reduce the constriction.

Second, remove the barrel which may allow the constriction to "relax". Then face the barrel shoulder so the barrel can be drawn up with little torque, and then use Loc-Tite "Sleeve Mount" to glue the barrel in. THIS REALLY WORKS!!!

Third, use only jacketed bullets as these will spring back some once past the choke and reduce the effect of the choke constriction.

Fourth: Have the barrel "Taylor Throated". (Note; if you google this read the description under the Castboolets.com link, most of the other results are not an accurate description of the process.) Basically this is free-boring of the shank portion of the barrel to remove the constriction.

Or, you could just shoot the gun as is

Thanks don't want to sound disrespectful but - They should not be coming out of the factory in this condition. I shouldn't have to do anything more than load and shoot it with my specific loads - and not be required to buy tooling, special ammo and/or shipping it around the country to get what I paid for.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Then sell/ return them .

 

[8shot]

Then sell/ return them .

How many do you want

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks don't want to sound disrespectful but - They should not be coming out of the factory in this condition. I shouldn't have to do anything more than load and shoot it with my specific loads - and not be required to buy tooling, special ammo and/or shipping it around the country to get what I paid for.

Well seems like you keeping it, having made the shroud and working on the mover base. Be sure and shoot it as is. Then if you fix it with one of those alternatives and shoot it again, it'll be interesting to see how much difference in accuracy you experience.

 

[sigp220.45]

Did you shoot it as is? How was the accuracy?

 

[8shot]

Well seems like you keeping it, having made the shroud and working on the mover base. Be sure and shoot it as is. Then if you fix it with one of those alternatives and shoot it again, it'll be interesting to see how much difference in accuracy you experience.

Will do...I really like the 7" barrel...gives me a lot to work with during the barricade event.

Looks like I'll be firing up my lathe...since S&W doesn't want to correct the problem.

 

[sigp220.45]

Shoots 1" groups at 3 yards.

You've shot the OP's gun?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Is that facetious to make the point that virtually any gun is accurate enough for close range SD ? Or actually saying it's only capable of 5 inch group @ 15yd , and 7 inch group @ 25 ?

 

[pistolpete10]

S&W quality now days, last 5 or 6 new S&W have something wrong, they don't always repair them if returned. Sad.............................

 

[Protocall_Design]

I'm not guessing. A barrel with "thread choke" won't shoot a tight group at normal target distances, such as 25 or 50 yards. It will also lead up when shooting lead bullets.

You can't have all sorts of things wrong with a handgun barrel and have it be accurate. It has to have good rifling, a good forcing cone (on revolvers), a good muzzle crown, and a straight, or tapered smaller toward the muzzle bore, to shoot small groups. If any of these things aren't right, it won't shoot as well as it could. Quality ammo is also part of the equation.

 

[RetCapt]

Restricted barrel on 686 - off topic

Already made an aluminum shroud....working on my mover base now.[/QUOTE]

Your aluminum shroud strongly resembles the stainless steel shrouds Wichita Arms used to make. Is that what you had in mind when you made your shroud?

The Wichita Arms shroud also has an integral muzzle brake. I have mine mounted on my no dash 6" 586 which has also had some other custom work done.

Given the weight and the further extension from the muzzle brake, it makes for a very muzzle heavy revolver. .38 wadcutters feel line .22 rimfires.

Nice piece of work you did.

 

[CheyenneBodie]

"Fire Lapping" may be a solution. I had good luck with it--I had a K-38 in which a pin gauge would not go all the way through the barrel. It would stop where the barrel threads into the frame. I applied lapping compound on 100 lead bullets (a messy job) loaded them with just enough bullseye powder to have the bullet clear the barrel. I cleaned the barrel every ten rounds and checked clearance with pin gauge--after 80 rounds the pin gauge cleared the barrel. Results after were increased accuracy and no leading. It's messy and a pain in the tookus but it was effective.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Fire lapping is a good solution. It's a lot more messy and time consuming than the lathe approach, but not everyone has a lathe or a local gunsmith available. It has the additional benefit of smoothing out the entire barrel.

 

[8shot]

Already made an aluminum shroud....working on my mover base now.

Your aluminum shroud strongly resembles the stainless steel shrouds Wichita Arms used to make. Is that what you had in mind when you made your shroud?

The Wichita Arms shroud also has an integral muzzle brake. I have mine mounted on my no dash 6" 586 which has also had some other custom work done.

Given the weight and the further extension from the muzzle brake, it makes for a very muzzle heavy revolver. .38 wadcutters feel line .22 rimfires.

Nice piece of work you did.[/QUOTE]

Thanks

I started out with an 8.5" block of aluminum and seriously considered using the extra length for a comp...but in the end just cut it to fit the 7" barrel. Figured the extra weight and light bullets would help with any recoil.

Years ago I shot a (supplied) Manurhin MR73 revolver in 9mm that was set up with that type of shroud. I used the setup 30 years ago to shoot an open national barricade record (Bianchi Cup)...which everyone shoots now The difference is I shot it with the targets mounted backwards...before targets had the black X-Ring.

BTW: I shoot both sides of the barricade with my right hand and without wings, but do use spurs under the barrel.

 

[martyd]

I could not find the post on Boolits.com.

But I did find this.

This was copied from Jim Strohs website. It is also how Taylor throating was discribed to me by Mr. Taylors son.

copied from Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision

Taylor Throating is offered in .22, .32, .357/.38, .40, .41, .44, .45, and .475 calibers. Essentially, the barrel throat is lengthened one and one half to two calibers, and enlarged to slightly over groove diameter. The throat serves as the throat in a rifle barrel, enabling the bullet to become perfectly aligned with the bore before engaging the rifling. The "choking" effect present from tightening the barrel into the frame is removed as well. The rifling leade is a very gentle 1 ½ degrees. On average, when tested before and after using a Ransom Rest, 50 yard groups have been reduced 40 to 50%. The improvement is there using both cast and jacket bullets. I have not detected a change in velocity using cast bullets. Before and after chronographing is within standard deviation of each test. Using jacket bullets, there is a slight loss, less than 50 fps in all the tests I've conducted. If the barrel cylinder gap is adjusted to minimum at the same time the Taylor Throating is done, there will not be a velocity loss with jacket bullets, usually a gain of 25 to 50 fps.