S&W factory won't repair constricted barrel (686)

[8shot]

I could not find the post on Boolits.com.

But I did find this.

This was copied from Jim Strohs website. It is also how Taylor throating was discribed to me by Mr. Taylors son.

copied from Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision

Taylor Throating is offered in .22, .32, .357/.38, .40, .41, .44, .45, and .475 calibers. Essentially, the barrel throat is lengthened one and one half to two calibers, and enlarged to slightly over groove diameter. The throat serves as the throat in a rifle barrel, enabling the bullet to become perfectly aligned with the bore before engaging the rifling. The "choking" effect present from tightening the barrel into the frame is removed as well. The rifling leade is a very gentle 1 ½ degrees. On average, when tested before and after using a Ransom Rest, 50 yard groups have been reduced 40 to 50%. The improvement is there using both cast and jacket bullets. I have not detected a change in velocity using cast bullets. Before and after chronographing is within standard deviation of each test. Using jacket bullets, there is a slight loss, less than 50 fps in all the tests I've conducted. If the barrel cylinder gap is adjusted to minimum at the same time the Taylor Throating is done, there will not be a velocity loss with jacket bullets, usually a gain of 25 to 50 fps.

RE: 38 spl

I suspect that is how the Brownells Revolver Chamfering Tool kit was developed. It has both 11 and 18 degree forcing cone reamers...I use the 11 degree reamer on my revolvers. From what I understand the 11 degree (vs the factory 18 degree) allows for a more gentle bullet entry and contact with the rifling. Same principle you describe?

I have the kit and can say with lead bullets 1-1/2" 50 yard rested D/A revolver groups are common. Have no idea how they would group in a rest.

To be honest I'm just getting back into handguns after a 30 year run with streetrods.

 

[RetCapt]

8shot,

I had been a long time PPC competitor. When the Calif Combat Assn started a leg gun match series, I used my Colt Python. My PPC gun was built up on a Ruger Six series frame. I got the 586 with the idea that I could use one gun for both matches. My 586 came with the tall front sight so I could use a neck hold at 50 yards. I had an action job done, then had it electroless nickel plated. The Wichita Arms shroud was advertised as removable. My intent was to use the 586 with the shroud on for the regular PPC matches, and off for the leg matches. On Wichita Arms' recommendation I sent the 586 to them for the install. When I got it back I went to remove it. It would not budge. It did not take very long for me to wake up to the fact that the electroless nickel plating had added just enough extra material to make the shroud a force fit permanent installation. There went that idea. It became moot not too long afterwards. My LE responsibilities and teaching load increased so much that I had no spare time to practice or attend matches, so I had to give it up.

All that muzzle weight sure makes for a nice shooting revolver though.

 

[8shot]

8shot,

I had been a long time PPC competitor. When the Calif Combat Assn started a leg gun match series, I used my Colt Python. My PPC gun was built up on a Ruger Six series frame. I got the 586 with the idea that I could use one gun for both matches. My 586 came with the tall front sight so I could use a neck hold at 50 yards. I had an action job done, then had it electroless nickel plated. The Wichita Arms shroud was advertised as removable. My intent was to use the 586 with the shroud on for the regular PPC matches, and off for the leg matches. On Wichita Arms' recommendation I sent the 586 to them for the install. When I got it back I went to remove it. It would not budge. It did not take very long for me to wake up to the fact that the electroless nickel plating had added just enough extra material to make the shroud a force fit permanent installation. There went that idea. It became moot not too long afterwards. My LE responsibilities and teaching load increased so much that I had no spare time to practice or attend matches, so I had to give it up.

All that muzzle weight sure makes for a nice shooting revolver though.

I bet we may have shot at the same match at some point...I was on the Border Patrol National Team years ago. Same with me..started getting promoted and left shooting behind. Now I have the bug again..but find myself getting hurt just going prone

 

[Nightowl]

I've got a couple of 627s with frame choke, fairly slight. What do you put on the bullets to fire lap the barrel and where do you get it?

 

[BLUEDOT37]

One of the first checks I do now to a "new to me" gun is to check the barrel's bore by inserting the largest diameter pin gage that will freely enter the muzzle & letting it slowly slide thru the length of the barrel to check for any constrictions.

So far my new 610-3 & new 625-8 PC have both had barrel-frame constrictions. In both cases the next smaller (.001") pin gage slide past the constriction.

I found the 610 problem before shooting it & the 625's after the first outing.

With the revolver in a bench vise I hand lapped out both constrictions using an old wore wire bore cleaning brush wrapped with several layers of cotton patches, loaded up with 600 grit silicone carbide abrasive compound, and applied a LOT of elbow grease, until the original pin gage slides past the constriction.

I concentrated my lapping/polishing action at the point of the constriction only but you can also give the forcing cone a little attention, if needed, since it's "close by" too.

Both revolvers are excellent shooter now & my elbow is no worse for the wear.

.

 

[chief38]

Most shooters and owners of this model never check for this condition. Most shooters I've seen at the Range can not even shoot close to the somewhat diminished accuracy of the Revolver in question anyway - so they never know the difference.

While we probably have a higher concentration of competent shooters on this Forum (because of the focus here) it saddens me just how poor many shooters can group 6 rounds in a target 50 feet or less away. That is why S&W doesn't get even more complaints - they simply don't know!

 

[RetCapt]

I bet we may have shot at the same match at some point...I was on the Border Patrol National Team years ago. Same with me..started getting promoted and left shooting behind. Now I have the bug again..but find myself getting hurt just going prone

I remember the BP teams. You guys were really (really!) good.
Much of the county where I worked was ag and we had a BP office that served the region. Good group of guys. That is where I learned about quotas. The BP would be out rounding up illegals for 2 1/2 to 3 weeks each month. Then nothing. So I asked. They told me that once they had detained a certain number, and had them transported to Livermore, they could not bring in any more due to budgetary limits for that month. Once the month rolled over then they were back in action.

Getting more mature does have its complications. For a number of years long after I had retired when I would take my PPC revolvers out of the safe and dry fire them I found the trigger pulls getting heavier. No rust, so why would springs on a stored revolver get stiffer? Finally one day I checked the range of movement of my strong side trigger finger with the weak side. The weak side finger pad would still just about touch the pad of my hand at the knuckle. The strong side though would stop just short of 90 degrees to the base of the finger. No more squeezing back to where the finger pad would contact the frame to know the shot was going to break. I also now wear tri-focals. Getting down prone not too much a problem, but getting back up not so easy since I blew out a knee some years ago fighting a wildland fire (retirement career). I still work out and I am not carrying any extra weight, but time just won't stand still.

Back to revolvers, given the timing I never got to test my customized 586 in a match. I always learned more about a revolver under the pressure of a match than in practice. So I am left to speculate. But that speculation leads me to believe that that very muzzle heavy revolver with its extremely smooth and light DA would have been a great match revolver.

 

[ironhead7544]

If you havent solved the problem, contact Lead Bullet Technologies.

 

[8shot]

If you havent solved the problem, contact Lead Bullet Technologies.

I'm good to go...waiting for my other 7" 686 which is still at the factory with the same barrel restriction to be returned...then I'll just pull the barrels and fit them both by myself.

FYI: The double action, cylinder gap, timing, finish/fit etc are right on! I only need to tune down the main spring for any competition and of course correct the barrel restrictions.

 

[CALREB]

8Shot , I havent shot a Bianchi Cup since 1985, after moving to LA just shot PPC for the next 30 years. I know John Pride and Lou Salseda both shot L frames with shrouds at some time. I know there are many more classes and rule changes since I shot.

I totally agree that it stinks that these NEW revolvers have issues and agree that SW should fix them but they get away with it because the average user doesnt shoot that much and isnt that aware what affects accuracy.

I think you plan on shooting the open class. If I had your machining skills I would install my own barrel. You can control the weight,length, twist rate for your load. Just my thought.

I have thought about shooting Bianchi Cup/Action Pistol a lot since I retired. Not sure what I would shoot rev/auto. I have an old Davis 3B and I have the original old rib I used in the 80s and a newer rib from Aristocrat to put a dot on. I even still have a Gilmore dot that I won there. I am going to put it all together, its too hot outside anyway to do anything.

Nice Bianchi Cup story. 1983, Im a relatively new competitive shooter. Not quite sure how I got invited to shoot. Shooting a plain jane 586 6".
First event the practical match. At 10 yards instead of firing 1 shot on each target, I shot 2 and 2 and holstered. As soon as I holstered, I realized what I had done. Now Im going to shoot 2 and 2, but I only have 2 left in the gun, and am going to cost myself 20 more points.
Bill Rogers was shooting next to me and he was starting to reload for the second phase(smart precaution against a misfire) and he yells RELOAD! So I draw my gun reload and holster. The R/O starts to yell at him that he can't coach another shooter, Bill yells back "Hey I'm just reminding myself to reload". Nice man...

 

[Protocall_Design]

I've shot the Bianchi Cup with a revolver since 1993. If you have any questions, I can probably answer them for you. It's way cheaper to build a first rate revo than an auto.

 

[8shot]

As an update:

First off I need to thank Warren AKA: on this forum as Protocall_Design...he gave me some great info related to turning the 686 barrel.

Would recommend him for any of your gunsmithing needs...a lot of Bianchi Cup winners use his products.

I R&R'd my restricted 7" 686 barrel the other day and put a few 130 grain LHP reloads (38 spl cases) through it (GT Bullets). This 7 round group was fired all double action at 50 yards (don't like S/A testing)..between wind gusts. I never even touched the action or even removed the side plate yet to swap springs...bone stock factory action. Same size group with 158 gr LRN Remington factory ammo. I bet with a Ransom Rest the groups would print the size of the quarter.

Forgot to mention that I mounted a red dot scope for testing.

 

[Protocall_Design]

Thanks for the good word, 8shot. Glad we got you going!

Great shooting too! That's a good 50 yard group, even off a bench rest.