S&W in 455 Eley

[mesabi]

Been a long time since I posted, and I checked in to see if there was any mention of that auction. I've handled this revolver several times at the seller's shop and have been sorely tempted by it: I think you got a beautiful piece at a good price!

 

[CptCurl]

You done good, boy! That's a great .455 by any estimate. No Brit. proofs, so was sold commercially in the U.S.

Mine is the same. A good many years ago I posted some photos of mine here: S&W .455 Mk. II Hand Ejector 2nd Model #69234

While you are waiting for yours you can gaze upon mine as a substitute.

Maybe you can talk Hornady into making another run of their .455 bullets.

I think I might just take mine out to the range for a session today.

BTW, I think you got a better deal on yours than I paid for mine. Congratulations!

Curl

 

[steelslaver]

Here is a first model, note triplelock ejector rod housing
and a second model.

 

[Jack Flash]

One last comment:
If you have some WWII British .455 Mk II ammo, you may want to just keep it for display, picture taking, and the like.


IIRC, the Brits were still using corrosive primers throughout WWII, so if you do shoot it, thoroughly clean the gun immediately after firing it. Better still, don't fire it.


Besides, this WWII Mk II is probably gaining collector status, if it isn't there already. I bought a couple of boxes for $12 each, shipped, a decade ago, IIRC. It's probably worth two or three times that much now.

 

[PJGP]

I do not know of any 455 chambered revolver by any maker that will only take the shorter Mark II case. Does anyone?

Peter

 

[Skeetr57]

PJGP: Some of the early Colt New Service revolvers had the shorter chambers. I bought one from Navy Arms/Service Armament around 1964 that was so chambered. It would fire .45 ACP without moon clips, but would not extract.

 

[Hondo44]

PJGP: Some of the early Colt New Service revolvers had the shorter chambers. I bought one from Navy Arms/Service Armament around 1964 that was so chambered. It would fire .45 ACP without moon clips, but would not extract.

The 1st 30000 or so Colts had charge holes (no shoulder) and would even take 45 Colt.

I don't know of any 455s that wouldn't take the longer Mark I cartridges or 455 Colt.

 

[Skeetr57]

Jim: I actually traded for the NS at a gun show in Columbia, SC, and now that I think about it, it would have been in 1965. I had bought a Webley MkVI from Navy arms at the show the year before for $17.50and converted it to .45ACP/AR by turning off a bit of the rear of the cylinder and ejector star.
I went back to the same show the next year and traded the MkVI back to Navy Arms for the NS in .455. I gave about $5 to boot for the NS. After further inspection, I decided that the Colt ejector star was too thin to machine for the moon clips, but I also discovered that the shoulder in the chambers was in the right location to hold the ,45 ACP for firing. The whole object of buying the MkVI and the NS was to shoot the cheap steel case 1943 .45 ammo that was available then for @$3 a box. I shot a good bit of that 1943 ammo and a bit of .455 MkII in the gun before trading it off.

 

[Hondo44]

Jim:The whole object of buying the MkVI and the NS was to shoot the cheap steel case 1943 .45 ammo that was available then for @$3 a box. I shot a good bit of that 1943 ammo and a bit of .455 MkII in the gun before trading it off.

Well I learn new stuff everyday and it appears I've learned something else. So Thanks!

I had been under the impression the British contract called for long enough chambers so they could use Mark I cartridges in the case of an ammo shortage. Apparently I am wrong about the Colts. I know the Smiths are:

Photo by Lee Jarrett

 

[PJGP]

I had been under the impression the British contract called for long enough chambers so they could use Mark I cartridges in the case of an ammo shortage.

The chambers of the Webley Service revolvers were never changed. I assume that Colt, S&W and the WW I Spanish revolvers were ordered to conform with the specification in force for the Webleys.

Peter

 

[Jack Flash]

The Colt below shipped to England in 1916, I believe. The barrel is marked
NEW SERVICE 455 ELEY

I just tried chambering .45 Colt cartridges. They stick out so far they prevent the cylinder from closing. However, .455 Colt (which I believe is equivalent to .455 Eley / .455 Mark I) will chamber and fire just fine.

Here is the NS with Fiocchi Mk II and Dominion .455 Colt:

 

[Kurusu]

One last comment:
If you have some WWII British .455 Mk II ammo, you may want to just keep it for display, picture taking, and the like.


IIRC, the Brits were still using corrosive primers throughout WWII, so if you do shoot it, thoroughly clean the gun immediately after firing it. Better still, don't fire it.


Besides, this WWII Mk II is probably gaining collector status, if it isn't there already. I bought a couple of boxes for $12 each, shipped, a decade ago, IIRC. It's probably worth two or three times that much now.

Fiocchi releases some batches of .455 once in a while.

Edit. And, you already know that. Sorry for stating the obvious.

 

[Jack Flash]

Fiocchi releases some batches of .455 once in a while.

Edit. And, you already know that. Sorry for stating the obvious.

Not obvious, to me anyways! Good comment!
The Fiocchi in the picture is pretty darned old. I bought it 14+ years ago, and it had been sitting on the gun shop shelf for who knows how long before that. So if Fiocchi is still manufacturing it (even if sporadically), that is good to know.

 

[dsf]

I'm thinking you may have to at least buy the .455 shell holder(?)

I bit the bullet and bought the dies & shell holder from Lee.

I did the same - for $30.00 getting a hell holder and dedicated seater die was worth it. I don't need the carbide die, don't like the Lee case mouth expander die set up because it "floats" and has to be pulled out with a "ka-thunk" on the upstroke. Although the old Colt soft lead RN should work I'm going to see what Penn Bullets has to offer.

 

[dsf]

Been a long time since I posted, and I checked in to see if there was any mention of that auction. I've handled this revolver several times at the seller's shop and have been sorely tempted by it: I think you got a beautiful piece at a good price!

I've done similar. A Remington 51 was on auction, the winner happened to be in the same town as the gun store selling. When he went to pick it up I was there too & we found out we'd been bidding against each other. Small world.

The guys at the gun store in Olathe were great to deal with too.

At least I can pick up when it shows up. Even in CA the C&R helps a bit. We have to use a CA "COE" with it, but get to skip the 10 day wait.

 

[PJGP]

However, .455 Colt (which I believe is equivalent to .455 Eley / .455 Mark I) will chamber and fire just fine.

The names 455 Colt and 455 Eley are just that, (Canadian and US) commercial names for the longer cartridge case 455 rounds.

The British military had a "long case" Mk I with 265 Gr lead bullet and a "short case" Mark II with a similar bullet. Then there were: Mk III with a lead hollow nose flat point; Mk IV and V with a virtually flat point lead bullet of two differing lead alloys; and finally Mk VI with 265 Gr jacketed bullet.

The only company to mark their revolvers with other than ".455" was Colt, who used the name 455 Eley. This is most probably because, when they first chambered revolvers for the 455, Eley was the main manufacturer of commercial 455 ammo. The name 455 Colt came from the Canadian cartridge maker Dominion, and my guess is that this was because the RCMP ("Mounties") has adopted 455 Colts.

Commercial rounds can be found with a variety of bullet types in both long and short cases.

Peter

 

[Toyman]

Winchester chose to label their 455 ammo as 455 COLT.
Here are 2 boxes of Winchester 455 , brass roll mark toll for the master carton of ammo and a S&W 2nd model shipped to Winchester as an ammo test gun.
I have an earlier box of Winchester 455 that is black powder marked.

 

[Jack Flash]

Very interesting information, Peter.

I had always thought that Colt itself had "created" the cartridge they called "455 Colt". (I just noticed that Cartridges of the World has information to this effect. That's probably where I got it from.)

We are all familiar with the ".38 Colt Special" which Colt "designed" to avoid having to mark their guns ".38 S&W Special".

 

[Absalom]

.....
We are all familiar with the ".38 Colt Special" which Colt "designed" to avoid having to mark their guns ".38 S&W Special".

Did Colt ever actually mark a gun as such? My area of modest knowledge is limited, but on the fixed-sight revolvers they went from the pre-war practice of just marking 38 (and assuming the user to be smart enough to know that was .38 Special, not .38 NP or .38 Colt), to marking 38 SPECIAL CTG. after the war.

 

[Jack Flash]

Did Colt ever actually mark a gun as such? My area of modest knowledge is limited, but on the fixed-sight revolvers they went from the pre-war practice of just marking 38 (and assuming the user to be smart enough to know that was .38 Special, not .38 NP or .38 Colt), to marking 38 SPECIAL CTG. after the war.

I don't have any 38 Colts so I can't answer that directly, only by inference.

I do have a pre-WWI SAA which is marked on the barrel simply
45 COLT
I also have a New Service of about the same vintage (I think, I never checked into its manufacture date). Its barrel is marked
NEW SERVICE 45 COLT

On these, I believe 45 COLT is the cartridge designation. So I infer that Colt would similarly mark a revolver chambered for other cartridges. At least circa WWI.

We see this definitely holds true for the revolver above, marked
NEW SERVICE 455 ELEY
So at least all three of these seem to be consistent.

I don't know a lot about Colts. I could definitely be off base on this.