S&W K-38 Masterpiece 4" - Couple of Questions

[Svashtar]

Hi everyone,

First post here; I spend all my time over on Bladeforums, but figured I would come to the experts here with a question.

I recently did a deal for a K-38 Masterpiece. It belonged to my friends late father. He said the revolver was "as new", and I was hoping for a 6", but it is a 4".

It was in perfect condition (I thought.) I think it is considered a "5 Screw" model. It has 3 screws on the right side, one in the grip frame and one in the guard.

I couldn't believe how clean it was, and there was barely a drag line around the cylinder. I'm sure it has never been fired. The serial # is K 106XXX, and the numbers match on the cylinder and inside the right grip panel. My friend says it is from 1947, but I think it's newer than that; from the late '50's perhaps? The action is like butter, and the SA letoff is maybe 3 lbs. tops. The bore is perfect, as are the cylinder bores. The sight blade is black, no outline. Color-case hardened hammer and trigger.

It came in a gold box with a picture in blue of a 6" K-38. On the left side of the box is a blue and white paper label that says "Smith & Wesson" on Line 1, "38 Combat Masterpiece" on line 2, and "4" long barrel" and "Blue Finish" on line 3.

It has the original black metal cleaning rod and a small black metal knurled screwdriver. The bluing, fit & finish are immaculate. The grips are square bottom S&W original target grips; super clean with nice figure in them.

Not knowing the exact value I estimated it at about $300 or so, but as I was buying 2 other rifles at the same time my friend took 25% off everything, so I got it for $225 plus the paperwork fees.

When I got home I was stoked, and then under brighter light horrified to find that the guys Dad had taken a Dremel and engraved a small (say 9 pt.) "B" in the grip frame behind the trigger guard! (Right where your middle finger would rest.) Then I noticed extremely tiny engraving above the serial no. on the bottom of the grip frame, some id #. That is almost unnoticeable though compared to the other.

So, I have two questions:

1) On the inside of the crane is a small "4" and a larger "3" which I know designates variants. (BTW, that "3" is about the same size as the guys "B"). But under that is a very small "99089". That 99089 is also on the swing out portion of the crane. Any idea what that number is?

2) I'm sick about the engraving. (What would possess someone to take such a flawless piece and mark it up is beyond me.) I'm a fairly handy amateur gunsmith, but don't want to mess with the finish. Do you know if the factory could clean this up for me? Or do you have a 'smith you'd recommend? Or should I just enjoy it as a shooter? I know I could get the engraving off with a kratex bit, but doubt I could get the finish to match even with the best cold blue.

I still feel like a got a good deal, and was prepared to go up to maybe $325 with confidence (based on my not knowing the actual value of the revolver), but I think the engraving has hurt the value. Any input on this point is welcome.

Sorry to go on so long, but wanted to be as detailed as possible so you'd have good info.

Thanks very much for any information or suggestions.

Best Regards,

Norm

 

[murphydog]

Welcome to the Forum. It sounds like a nice gun, even with the "custom features" from the previous owner. The SN puts it as a 1951 shipped gun, and the 99089 on the parts mentioned are assembly numbers. This means the two parts were fitted and came together originally at the factory. I'd guess you got a pretty good deal, even if it is not perfect. Enjoy!

 

[rags]

Sound like an interesting piece. FYI, I think the black knurled screwdriver is worth $200.

rags

 

[Svashtar]

Welcome to the Forum. It sounds like a nice gun, even with the "custom features" from the previous owner. The SN puts it as a 1951 shipped gun, and the 99089 on the parts mentioned are assembly numbers. This means the two parts were fitted and came together originally at the factory. I'd guess you got a pretty good deal, even if it is not perfect. Enjoy!

Thanks for the date info Alan. I appreciate it. 1951 is closer to his estimated date than I was. I figured for sure it was about 10 years later than that.

Best,

Norm

 

[Svashtar]

Sound like an interesting piece. FYI, I think the black knurled screwdriver is worth $200.

rags

??? Well, with two whole posts behind me I'm sure you're really kidding, but that would be nice! Prior to this the oldest Smith I have acquired is a 1970 mfr. Model 19 2.5" .357. It had never been fired but unfortunately the previous owner had left it in a cheap leather holster for 30 years! Had no choice but to reblue the cylinder, but it is a wonderful shooter and carry gun.

Best,

Norm

 

[rags]

??? Well, with two whole posts I can't tell if you're kidding or not, but that would be nice! Prior to this the oldest Smith I have acquired is a 1970 mfr. Model 19 2.5" .357. It had never been fired but unfortunately the previous owner had left it in a cheap leather holster for 30 years! Had no choice but to reblue the cylinder, but it is a wonderful shooter and carry gun.

Best,

Norm

Someone will be along shorty to verify but I have seen them sell for way north of $100...

rags

 

[Svashtar]

Someone will be along shorty to verify but I have seen them sell for way north of $100...

rags

Geez, you S&W guys are even more possessed than the Randall fanatics LOL! (Actually, I take that back; no one is more obsessed than Randall Knife fans. )

From doing a bit of research I take it mine would be called a "pre-model 15" then?

Regards,

Norm

 

[Art Doc]

The early screwdrivers are ridiculously pricey. There is a special place in Hell for idiots who don't think the unique serial number stamped on the frame is enough to ID the gun and feel the need to scratch their DL or SSN into the gun. Without that you got a $500 gun. With it... well,I think you paid about right for a decent "shooter" Combat Masterpiece.

 

[Nightowl]

If I am understanding the location of the "additions", they are normally out of sight. I think you would do more damage attempting to remove them. Most guns that old have a lot more marks on them than that. If you plan on shooting it, the wear will decrease value more than the stampings. I would consider it part of it's history and an asset, rather than a distraction. I think you got a really good deal on it.

 

[Svashtar]

The early screwdrivers are ridiculously pricey. There is a special place in Hell for idiots who don't think the unique serial number stamped on the frame is enough to ID the gun and feel the need to scratch their DL or SSN into the gun. Without that you got a $500 gun. With it... well,I think you paid about right for a decent "shooter" Combat Masterpiece.

Yes, like there's going to be 100 of the same serial number out there. He also scribed an early Winchester Model 52 and Mossberg 152 with the same 12 digit number, but did them very small and discreetly.

I've never been in the military, but maybe it's a military serial #? It's 12 numbers, xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx. Doesn't matter to me on the rifles, they're shooters and the Winchester is going to have to be refurbed anyway, but on this it makes me sick.

I'll see if I could find someone who could fix it, just for aesthetics sake. I'll also see if I can post a pic here.

Thanks,

Norm

 

[310Pilot]

Welcome to the forum, and, no, Rags wasn't kidding! Iwould say you.got a terrific deal on a relatively rare gun (early Combat Masterpiece), especially with the original box, the (very rare) factory screwdriver,etc.,even though it suffered dome minor Bubba work. Easily worth twice what you paid,without the screwdriver in the condition described. Do not try to wipe out the engraving or reblue, that will destroy the value - and don't let any cold blue within ten miles of your gun! You have a nice piece, despite the scratchings (which do impact value, but refinishing or attempts to remove the engraving will only decrease value a lot more). The factory can no longer blue to the same colors as on your gun - best to keep it as is.

 

[Svashtar]

If I am understanding the location of the "additions", they are normally out of sight. I think you would do more damage attempting to remove them. Most guns that old have a lot more marks on them than that. If you plan on shooting it, the wear will decrease value more than the stampings. I would consider it part of it's history and an asset, rather than a distraction. I think you got a really good deal on it.

Well, thanks Richard, that is how my son looks at it. They are out of sight from the top and the sides of the revolver. I'm not really a collector and was going to shoot it moderately, but figured if I could spend $50 blending out the letter it would be worth it. Depends on how much is involved I guess.

Regards,

Norm

 

[Svashtar]

Welcome to the forum, and, no, Rags wasn't kidding! Iwould say you.got a terrific deal on a relatively rare gun (early Combat Masterpiece), especially with the original box, the (very rare) factory screwdriver,etc.,even though it suffered dome minor Bubba work. Easily worth twice what you paid,without the screwdriver in the condition described. Do not try to wipe out the engraving or reblue, that will destroy the value - and don't let any cold blue within ten miles of your gun! You have a nice piece, despite the scratchings (which do impact value, but refinishing or attempts to remove the engraving will only decrease value a lot more). The factory can no longer blue to the same colors as on your gun - best to keep it as is.

Thanks very much, I appreciate the advice. I would have paid the same even had I seen it, but it's just disappointing is all. I've bought plenty of duds in my time and thought that I had finally scored a home run.

Bottom line, it is a pleasure to own something 60 years old in such great shape. They really made some beautiful stuff back then. I'll take your advice and leave it alone then.

Best,

Norm

 

[Svashtar]

Some follow-up pictures

Here's the guy. I apologize for the quality. Last pic shows the "customization" on both the bottom of the grip frame and behind the guard...

Thanks again for all the info.

Best,

Norm

 

[DCWilson]

Excellent acquisition; congratulations.

First, a clarification. Your gun is indeed a five-screw gun, but any screw low on the butt is not part of the count. A five-screw gun has four in the side plate and one in front of the trigger guard. One of your side plate screws is concealed by the high-rise magna stocks that cover part of the side plate. The rule of thumb is that if it has a big screw at the top of the side plate in front of the hammer, the plate has four screws and (with the exception of a few models made before 1905) the gun can be considered a five-screw gun.

Second, I just want to emphasize this is an early Pre-15. A few are known with serial numbers below K100000, but they start to be seen with greater frequency just above that number. (I have K101707.)

The model name is actually "Combat Masterpiece" without a caliber designation if you follow the company's catalogs and all-model circulars. Your box has a paste-on label that calls it a .38 Combat Masterpiece, which must have been produced at an early date while they were still making up their minds about the name.

I think $200 is a little steep for the sight adjustment tool ("screwdriver"), but I have seen them sell at the $150 level.

There is no question that having the box and tools adds value to the gun from a collector's point of view. That's at least a $400 gun by itself, and maybe $650 with all the accessories.

 

[Svashtar]

Excellent acquisition; congratulations.

First, a clarification. Your gun is indeed a five-screw gun, but any screw low on the butt is not part of the count. A five-screw gun has four in the side plate and one in front of the trigger guard. One of your side plate screws is concealed by the high-rise magna stocks that cover part of the side plate. The rule of thumb is that if it has a big screw at the top of the side plate in front of the hammer, the plate has four screws and (with the exception of a few models made before 1905) the gun can be considered a five-screw gun.

Second, I just want to emphasize this is an early Pre-15. A few are known with serial numbers below K100000, but they start to be seen with greater frequency just above that number. (I have K101707.)

The model name is actually "Combat Masterpiece" without a caliber designation if you follow the company's catalogs and all-model circulars. Your box has a paste-on label that calls it a .38 Combat Masterpiece, which must have been produced at an early date while they were still making up their minds about the name.

I think $200 is a little steep for the sight adjustment tool ("screwdriver"), but I have seen them sell at the $150 level.

There is no question that having the box and tools adds value to the gun from a collector's point of view. That's at least a $400 gun by itself, and maybe $650 with all the accessories.

David,

Thank you very much indeed for all the valuable information. I really appreciate it. I'll certainly keep the whole package intact.

Best regards,

Norm

 

[donaldw870]

You definitely scored a home run. You can think of the value of the screwdriver as more than washing out the dis-value of the engraving.