S&W Model 15 .38 as USAF Commemorative

[Lowpower]

I was in Ellsworth AFB, 44th SMW from 72-74. Qualified with an M-15 but never really carried it. I do remember it was a beautiful shooter. Did any other service actually use the M-15 other than the USAF?

I'd probably be in for one if S&W ever responds. Anyone actually count how many S&W Forum takers there are yet?

 

[galena]

I was in the USAF from 1966-1988. First time I was issued a M-15 was as an "additional duty" paymaster. Qualified Expert first time out. I was an OSI Special Agent for 10 years. Issued a M-15 4" and/or 2" until OSI replaced them with 3" M-36s (stupid move). However, I would be one of first in line for a USAF Commemerative M-15. I carried a M-19 as civilian LEO.

 

[F224]

Same here, I would love one. Were most of them blued? That was the only versions I saw at Offutt AFB, 1977-1980.

 

[Gatofeo]

I was in Ellsworth AFB, 44th SMW from 72-74. Qualified with an M-15 but never really carried it. I do remember it was a beautiful shooter. Did any other service actually use the M-15 other than the USAF?

I'd probably be in for one if S&W ever responds. Anyone actually count how many S&W Forum takers there are yet?

I've started counting and taking "I'd love to have one" type of quotes to forward to Smith & Wesson. I sent a letter outlining a USAF Model 15 commemorative last November. Sent it again in April. No response from either.
Perhaps reference to this site, and the comments, will help get some kind of response.
Frankly, I think there's a large demand for this revolver.

I know that the Navy Security Police carried Model 15s. I met a few when I was stationed in Panama in 1977 and 1978.
Not to be confused with "Shore Patrol," to be in the Navy's Security Police, you had to have served at least four years. The Navy Security Police generally rode patrol and did minor investigative work, often with Naval Investigative Services.

The Navy Security Police I met carried Model 15s just like mine (I was Air force Security Police). Shore Patrol, which was either Navy or Marine personnel given minimal or no training, were issued 1911A1 .45s.

I'll assemble that letter to Smith & Wesson and get it out in the next week. I'd love to have a Model 15, blued, with the USAF Security Police shield on it. The M15 Combat Masterpiece was, and remains, a magnificent weapon.

 

[8th SPS USAF]

M 15 USAF

I carried one from Tech school 1971 till I got out in 1974. But put the

old USAF logo not the winged one and have the SP badge on it. Target

hammer and trigger. We had horned grips when stationed at SAC HQ.

8th

 

[JR78]

Just an update: the 130gr MC bullet was referred to as the PGU. It traveled at about 1150 fps vs 700.

 

[Gatofeo]

See my earlier post, No. 31, dating to Nov. 17, 2009 concerning the 130 gr. full metal jacekt bullet.
Here's an excerpt:

"The standard M41 ball is loaded to standard .38 Special pressures of 16,000 psi maximum and develops 950 fps (plus or minus 25 fps) from a 6" solid test barrel.
The American Rifleman chronographed the M41 cartridge at 720 to 770 fps. This velocity is about the minimum at which a jacketed bullet can be expelled from a revolver.

PGU-12/B has a deep-seated bullet and heavy crimp. The headstamp includes the telltale +P marking. This cartridge gets 1,125 fps (plus or minus 25 fps) from a 6" solid test barrel. Maximum allowable pressure is 20,000 psi, which certainly qualifies it as +P.
The American Rifleman staff chronographed these same rounds from a 4" barrel at 950 to 980 fps."

I was honorably discharged in January 1979. I never saw PGU rounds. Our duty-issue ammo was the M41: 130gr. at 750 fps. The Air Force was experimenting with the PGU, and probably issued it to others deemed more needy (SAC, bodyguards, Air Force One guards, etc.) but we never saw it in Denver or Panama.

 

[galena]

I was the HQ AFOSI Marksmanship Manager and USAF Special Investigaions Academy firearms instructor from early 1974 until fall of 1977. Our issue handgun was a 3" heavy barrel S&W M-36. We begun to see the PGU-12B ammo sometime in 1976. We shot our training weapons extensively and we quickly learned that the PGU ammo was shooting the M-36s apart. We sent several to the Air Force Marksmanship gunsmiths at Lackland AFB, TX and they confirmed our suspicions and recommended that we terminate the use of PGU in the J framed Smiths. Since the guns in the field were usually only fired a couple of times a year for agent requal it took a little longer for the problems to become evident, but not too long. Just before I was reassined from HQ I put together a selection team to select a new handgun. I selected several team members who where 1911 fans and since my successor was also a 1911 guy they selected General Officer size 1911s that were built by the Lackland AFB gunsmiths especailly for OSI use. I'm not sure how long they were used but this was also about the time that DOD adopted the 9mm DOD wide. To my knowledge, AFOSI now uses the M-11, Sig.

 

[Texas Star]

Interesting thread...

When I was stationed at Lowry AFB, CO in the 1960's, we had some hi-speed 150 grain .38 ammo that I think a unit NCO bought in Denver. It had RN-FMJ bullets. I think I also saw those M-41 rounds. We had a few .45 autos, and I often carried one, in a Jordan style holster that I had made for me on leave by a shoe repair shop in Dallas. The store owner was into holsters and made about as good a rig as Don Hume did.

We had mainly Victory Models and a few Colt .38's, with investigative personnel having Cobra or Detective Special snubs with hammer shrouds. The M-15's were in short supply, and went to officers and senior NCO's. One officer carried his own M-14. (S&W .38, not the rifle.)

We had .30 carbines on expanded security alerts, and M-12 Winchester riot guns for prisoner escort.

All USAF M-15's that I saw had the target hammer and trigger. I heard that Gen. Lemay thought those would up the qualifying scores. Personally, I'd have preferred the standard hammer and trigger.

I guess that if it didn't have The Lock and MIM parts, I'd be interested in buying a commemorative M-15. I've never bought one because I preferred the .357 capability of the M-19 and later, the M-66, and the enclosed extractor (barrel lug).

I wish that Saxon Pig would read this thread and see what use of Plus P ammo did to the USAF .38's. He maintains in other topics that Plus P doesn't amount to much. I think that some Plus P is hotter than he thinks.

If I had to be armed with a .38, I'd unhesitantly choose an M-67. It'd have all the goodness of the M-15, plus the rust avoidance of stainless steel. I thought that the M-67 should have been issued to aircrews, who might be unable to oil their guns until rescued, maybe days or weeks later, under all sorts of environmental conditions. But I guess none of the bureaucrats in the Air Force cared.

I do know that some Air Rescue personnel in Alaska received S&W .44 Magnums after a crashed airman was eaten by bears and they were unable to help, as they were unarmed, or had just .38's. This was in an Air Force magazine in the 1960's. I was amazed that they didn't have suitable rifles on the rescue choppers.

T-Star

 

[RussP]

Glad the thread is still going...

I'd love a commemorative M-15.

I carried a Model 15 4" flying out of NKP, Thailand 1968-1970.

Found a 15-3 awhile back.. I couldn't pass it up for the price even though the -3 was built in 1970. Still would like to find one with USAF markings. Guy had one for sale for $775 5 years ago. Couldn't see spending that much.

Gonna keep looking....

 

[Gatofeo]

I sent Smith & Wesson a letter a week ago, noting the popularity of this post and urging it to offer a USAF commemorative. As the creator of this thread, I felt I had the right.
To strengthen my argument, I copied and pasted the comments of a few but did not include the names. I wanted to show Smith & Wesson that there is much support for this revolver.
Engravings of SAC, TAC or other seals engraved on it was also suggested.
This marks my third letter to Smith & Wesson. I did not receive a reply on the other two, so this time I noted that this thread had received nearly 12,000 hits and had dozens of posters.
One thing I suggested: if Smith & Wesson announces a blue steel USAF commemorative M-15, serial number AF 1 should go to the Security Police museum at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas.
Let's keep our trigger fingers crossed.

 

[8th SPS USAF]

SW 15 USAF

Gatofeo,

Thank you. Great idea on the museum . Hope so. Not too much $$$$

8th

 

[supersmitt]

I need to find a m-15 with the USAF stamp on it for a display case I'm making for the family of a team member K.I.A. I live on a small disability check, so I can't afford much, but condition is not an issue. It is only for display and I can have it re-blued if needed. If you have any leads on this, please contact me at [email protected] Thank you, Smitty. (former O.S.I.special agent)

 

[Pocketman38]

I remember being "oriented" on the model 15 while I was in the Air Force. Can't remember the exact reason. Anyway, I've been carrying a model 67 (stainless version of 15) on and off for almost 40 years. As a SAC "trained killer" I too would certainly buy a USAF commemorative.

 

[Gatofeo]

When I sent the letter to S&W, among the suggestions was that they keep it a simple revolver: no gold plating and very minimal engraving. This is not only in keeping with its USAF utility roots, but more veterans could buy it if the price is reasonable. I'm thinking around $600. Still no reply from S&W. I'll keep you posted.

 

[kwill1911]

I was the HQ AFOSI Marksmanship Manager and USAF Special Investigaions Academy firearms instructor from early 1974 until fall of 1977. Our issue handgun was a 3" heavy barrel S&W M-36. We begun to see the PGU-12B ammo sometime in 1976. We shot our training weapons extensively and we quickly learned that the PGU ammo was shooting the M-36s apart. We sent several to the Air Force Marksmanship gunsmiths at Lackland AFB, TX and they confirmed our suspicions and recommended that we terminate the use of PGU in the J framed Smiths. Since the guns in the field were usually only fired a couple of times a year for agent requal it took a little longer for the problems to become evident, but not too long. Just before I was reassined from HQ I put together a selection team to select a new handgun. I selected several team members who where 1911 fans and since my successor was also a 1911 guy they selected General Officer size 1911s that were built by the Lackland AFB gunsmiths especailly for OSI use. I'm not sure how long they were used but this was also about the time that DOD adopted the 9mm DOD wide. To my knowledge, AFOSI now uses the M-11, Sig.

galena,

Thanks for your post. Can you confirm that the 3" Model 36 revolvers used by OSI had "OSI" stamped on them?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams

 

[galena]

kwill1911

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. My computer has been down for a few days. Yes, the OSI issued M-36 was stamped with "OSI" on the right side of the frame below the cylinder, just above the trigger. I never saw one in OSI use without the stamp. The OSI issue was equiped with the S&W "banana" style grip panels. A lot of the agents didn't care for that grip so we authorized a S&W grip panel that converted it to a square butt configuration. Personally I liked the banana grip. Hope this answered your question. I am working from my lap top and not sure if I know how to upload pics; however, I will try in the next day or two.

Keep shootin'........Ric Ferron

 

[kwill1911]

Ric,

Thank you! I've been looking for one of these for years and would love to see pictures. If it is easier you can email them to me and I'll post them for you.

Regards,
Kevin Williams
kevin at kwill.com

 

[ChopperGuy]

I'd love to see an AF Commerative.

Security Police Law Enforcement / K9 (Patrol & Explosive Detector) from 1975 to 1979.

I just put together an AR that looks much like the shortened ones we carried as K9 whie I was on active duty. I'd like a M15 to go with it in my brag box in my home office.

 

[galena]

OSI M-36

kwill1911

Kevin,

If all goes well there are two pics attached to this reply. The M-36 in the pics is not an OSI issue weapon. It is my personal 36 set up as they were issued to the agents. The initial issue holster was a S&W inside the waist roughout holster. The one pictured is my personal holster and it is in left hand mode since I am one of those sinister people. The dump pouch is Safariland, some agents got them some didn't. We taught carrying extra rounds in the strong side pants pocket or jacket pocket which was taught at the S&W Academy at the time for plain clothes types. As I said in an earlier post, the M-36s were stamped "OSI" on the side plate just under the cylinder and above the trigger. Supica and Nahas, in their "Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson" report that the OSI M-36s were stamped on the side plate and on the frame. I do not recall ever seeing any frame marks; however, I may have just forgotten. I am not aware that any of the OSI M-36s were ever offered for public sale after the issue handgun was changed to the General Officer size 1911. I strongly suspect that the recalled 36s were probably either warehoused or destroyed. I would question the origin of any OSI marked M-36 found in the general market place as I do not believe that the government released any to the surplus market at the time (late 1970s through early 1980s) I hope some of the above is useful even if we did get off the theme of the original thread concerning the AF issued M-15s.

Keep shootin' Ric F